PERMANENT Changes. Opinions here

[Lesanne]

I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so different
for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to the
end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
least somewhat hungry)
Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is early
on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight before
(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.

I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.

And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!

On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every food
that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal where
I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
beginning.

It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might be
a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of the
huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?

[Brenda Hammond]

"Lesanne" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.

It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and things to
think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the bookstore
today and see if I can find it. Is it new?

>And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
> least somewhat hungry)
> Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
> am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> (countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.

I need to put the brakes on overeating as well. TOM is here and the last
couple of days have been really bad. I've done well during the day, but
when it comes to evening snacks I've been overdoing it a little. Today is a
new day and we'll try again to stay OP.

>
> I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.

I can honestly say I have on a few occasions.

>
> And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!

I don't want to eat that way again either, but sometimes find it difficult
to get into the mindset of NOT overeating. How did you get into that
mindset?
I have set all my cross-stitch supplies and projects on the end table in my
living room, tonight will do my best to get off the computer and sit my butt
down there and listen to the mindless TV while stitching. Perhaps once I
get started I won't be able to put it down, therefore no snacking!

>
> On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
> other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> beginning.

Resisting the urge to have more of certain foods can sometimes be a problem
for me. I am usually able to control that urge, but not for the last few
days. No real good reason other than TOM. Maybe I'm under some stress and
just not conciously aware of it.

>
> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?

I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best program
for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and see
what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to be
able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I knew
that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all that!

I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any of
you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?

>
>

[Fred]

As I approach a year (end of this month) with WW, I, too, have been
thinking, okay, cogitating (G).

First, there is the unformulated concept of finding THE SWITCH that
allowed me to really commit. I had started trying to lose weight a
number of times over the last 5 or so years. Each time just trying to
cut back but not with any carefully crafted plan. This time, I guess
I was serious or THE SWITCH happened. Oh, there was a trigger
photograph and the strain hiking while obese but there had been a few
other photos and the strain was there for a while. But this time was
right. That part is hard to explain - it was time and I was ready.

But what I think WW did was show me proportions and portion sizes for
all the foods I was eating.

But I also got my own handle on what was really NORMAL as opposed to
what was "normal for me!" This again deals a lot with portion control
but also binging and snacking quantities. I thought about thinner
friends and eating dinner or lunch or trail snacking with them. They
ate much less food than I did. I really did come to a crystalization
that my consumption was way out of control compared with others. They
did not seem to be starving or deprived. And WW provided portion
information and I found that while I was a bit uneasy with not having
what I "normally" had, I really was not starving. I was still able to
eat stuff that I had eaten before but in smaller quantities. Lunches
out started becoming two portion sizes as did the few dinners I did
early on. Yes, I could have eaten it all but found that I was not
uncomfortable eating less and I certainly was not as uncomfortably
full as I had been on many occasions eating too much.

I did have to strain to avoid the snacking urges in the evening and
making a habit of avoiding the candy dishes at work. That took a bit
of willpower but now it really is a habit. I know I have an
apple/pear/pretzels/other waiting in my office as a morning and
afternoon snack and that I do not need stuff at any time during the
morning and afternoon just because someone has it out and available.

The evening snacking is still something that I work on. But I try to
make sure what I have available is good or limited. I also am much
better at telling myself that only a piece of two is what I need.
This still needs work, frankly.

I am reluctant to change and so FLEX points has not grabbed me yet.
Besides, being at goal and lifetime, I know what I have been doing the
last few months works. So I have my base foods and meals. I can go
out to dinner and then fallback on my normal meals to keep control or
regain control. Of course, exercise plays a big role in my life -
lots of hiking, biking and soon, again, cross-country skiing. I
always have walked the urban scene and still do that altho, less so in
the wet and dark now approaching. I need to counter activity or lack
of it against the food intake and keep those balanced. But as we
discussed in another thread, we made it through last winter losing and
so this should be just a continuation of a positive balance of food
and exercise.

Here's to WW and positive thinking.

Fred


On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:

>I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so different
>for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
>And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
>permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to the
>end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
>least somewhat hungry)
>Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is early
>on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
>am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight before
>(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
>days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>
>I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
>
>And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
>feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>
>On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every food
>that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal where
>I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
>other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
>eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
>blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
>Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
>every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
>beginning.
>
>It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might be
>a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of the
>huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
>

[Lesanne]

>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
me.
>
> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and things
to
> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
bookstore
> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?

Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I know
Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?

>
> > (countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> > days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>
> I need to put the brakes on overeating as well. TOM is here and the last
> couple of days have been really bad. I've done well during the day, but
> when it comes to evening snacks I've been overdoing it a little. Today is
a
> new day and we'll try again to stay OP.
>
That starting over thing is one of the principles in changing for good. Not
to expect it to be easy, or go smooth. To expect "relapse" and effort to
continue for a long long time..

> > And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in
fact
> > feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>
> I don't want to eat that way again either, but sometimes find it difficult
> to get into the mindset of NOT overeating. How did you get into that
> mindset?

Effort ! Talking to myself, over and over and over. When the situation
came up, the "fat" meal, calling for an all out eating day, I just Made
myself go do something else, and told myself that it was "absolutely legal"
to have a high points meal, but if I continued to eat it was going to mess
up what I Really wanted in the long run. Practice made perfect over time.
I still sometimes want to continue to eat more when I have had a really good
meal though. I have a "relapse prevention plan" that I read every now and
then that helps. Wanting to do it, is under my Control. I get to decide.


> I have set all my cross-stitch supplies and projects on the end table in
my
> living room, tonight will do my best to get off the computer and sit my
butt
> down there and listen to the mindless TV while stitching. Perhaps once I
> get started I won't be able to put it down, therefore no snacking!
>

THAT is a great plan. And that is the idea. Identify your problem times,
and make plans.

>
> Resisting the urge to have more of certain foods can sometimes be a
problem
> for me. I am usually able to control that urge, but not for the last few
> days. No real good reason other than TOM. Maybe I'm under some stress
and
> just not conciously aware of it.
>

And there is another problem area you put your finger on. Sit and write
down some things you can do about it. Sometimes just reading them, makes me
get off the idea, especially if I am stressed. I can pull out my stress
list, and look at it, and decide, heck thats too much trouble I am just
going to go .______. and avoid the food thing.
> > It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
> be
> > a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> > tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> > mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
> the
> > huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
> I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
program
> for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and
see
> what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to
be
> able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
knew
> that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all that!
>
> I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any of
> you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>

Actually I am sort of doing flex, but eating like I was on the old program?
Not more than 31 or 32 points ever.

[Lesanne]

Yes!! Habits are powerful. If you Really change the habitual size of your
meals THAT is powerful.

"Fred" > wrote in message
...
> As I approach a year (end of this month) with WW, I, too, have been
> thinking, okay, cogitating (G).
>
> First, there is the unformulated concept of finding THE SWITCH that
> allowed me to really commit. I had started trying to lose weight a
> number of times over the last 5 or so years. Each time just trying to
> cut back but not with any carefully crafted plan. This time, I guess
> I was serious or THE SWITCH happened. Oh, there was a trigger
> photograph and the strain hiking while obese but there had been a few
> other photos and the strain was there for a while. But this time was
> right. That part is hard to explain - it was time and I was ready.
>
> But what I think WW did was show me proportions and portion sizes for
> all the foods I was eating.
>
> But I also got my own handle on what was really NORMAL as opposed to
> what was "normal for me!" This again deals a lot with portion control
> but also binging and snacking quantities. I thought about thinner
> friends and eating dinner or lunch or trail snacking with them. They
> ate much less food than I did. I really did come to a crystalization
> that my consumption was way out of control compared with others. They
> did not seem to be starving or deprived. And WW provided portion
> information and I found that while I was a bit uneasy with not having
> what I "normally" had, I really was not starving. I was still able to
> eat stuff that I had eaten before but in smaller quantities. Lunches
> out started becoming two portion sizes as did the few dinners I did
> early on. Yes, I could have eaten it all but found that I was not
> uncomfortable eating less and I certainly was not as uncomfortably
> full as I had been on many occasions eating too much.
>
> I did have to strain to avoid the snacking urges in the evening and
> making a habit of avoiding the candy dishes at work. That took a bit
> of willpower but now it really is a habit. I know I have an
> apple/pear/pretzels/other waiting in my office as a morning and
> afternoon snack and that I do not need stuff at any time during the
> morning and afternoon just because someone has it out and available.
>
> The evening snacking is still something that I work on. But I try to
> make sure what I have available is good or limited. I also am much
> better at telling myself that only a piece of two is what I need.
> This still needs work, frankly.
>
> I am reluctant to change and so FLEX points has not grabbed me yet.
> Besides, being at goal and lifetime, I know what I have been doing the
> last few months works. So I have my base foods and meals. I can go
> out to dinner and then fallback on my normal meals to keep control or
> regain control. Of course, exercise plays a big role in my life -
> lots of hiking, biking and soon, again, cross-country skiing. I
> always have walked the urban scene and still do that altho, less so in
> the wet and dark now approaching. I need to counter activity or lack
> of it against the food intake and keep those balanced. But as we
> discussed in another thread, we made it through last winter losing and
> so this should be just a continuation of a positive balance of food
> and exercise.
>
> Here's to WW and positive thinking.
>
> Fred
>
>
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> wrote:
>
> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
at
> >least somewhat hungry)
> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
I
> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >
> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
> >
> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >
> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
any
> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> >beginning.
> >
> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >
>

[Chrys]

"Lesanne" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?

What is nice about it is knowing that if there is a day that you go over,
you haven't gone off program. It's allowed. I love the flex points. It
eliminates having to feel guilty about being over on a day, and the
corresponding tendency I have to then give up and spend the rest of the
weekend being bad.

[Carol in NC]

It is amazing how we can put our head in the ground for a long while about
what we actually do to ourselves. My daughter always used to say it wasn't
fair that I was big because I ate LESS than she and my husband did.

That is fairly true, except for the fact that I ate different things than
they did, a lot of the time. If we went out to eat, they chose healthy
food, and I chose fried.

Realizing that I am doing things differently than others was a big step in
moving into another way of life.

Carol

--
.................................................. ...........
318/254.6/169
63.4 lost since December 2002
I am a slim person in process.
.................................................. .............
"Fred" > wrote in message
...
> As I approach a year (end of this month) with WW, I, too, have been
> thinking, okay, cogitating (G).
>
> First, there is the unformulated concept of finding THE SWITCH that
> allowed me to really commit. I had started trying to lose weight a
> number of times over the last 5 or so years. Each time just trying to
> cut back but not with any carefully crafted plan. This time, I guess
> I was serious or THE SWITCH happened. Oh, there was a trigger
> photograph and the strain hiking while obese but there had been a few
> other photos and the strain was there for a while. But this time was
> right. That part is hard to explain - it was time and I was ready.
>
> But what I think WW did was show me proportions and portion sizes for
> all the foods I was eating.
>
> But I also got my own handle on what was really NORMAL as opposed to
> what was "normal for me!" This again deals a lot with portion control
> but also binging and snacking quantities. I thought about thinner
> friends and eating dinner or lunch or trail snacking with them. They
> ate much less food than I did. I really did come to a crystalization
> that my consumption was way out of control compared with others. They
> did not seem to be starving or deprived. And WW provided portion
> information and I found that while I was a bit uneasy with not having
> what I "normally" had, I really was not starving. I was still able to
> eat stuff that I had eaten before but in smaller quantities. Lunches
> out started becoming two portion sizes as did the few dinners I did
> early on. Yes, I could have eaten it all but found that I was not
> uncomfortable eating less and I certainly was not as uncomfortably
> full as I had been on many occasions eating too much.
>
> I did have to strain to avoid the snacking urges in the evening and
> making a habit of avoiding the candy dishes at work. That took a bit
> of willpower but now it really is a habit. I know I have an
> apple/pear/pretzels/other waiting in my office as a morning and
> afternoon snack and that I do not need stuff at any time during the
> morning and afternoon just because someone has it out and available.
>
> The evening snacking is still something that I work on. But I try to
> make sure what I have available is good or limited. I also am much
> better at telling myself that only a piece of two is what I need.
> This still needs work, frankly.
>
> I am reluctant to change and so FLEX points has not grabbed me yet.
> Besides, being at goal and lifetime, I know what I have been doing the
> last few months works. So I have my base foods and meals. I can go
> out to dinner and then fallback on my normal meals to keep control or
> regain control. Of course, exercise plays a big role in my life -
> lots of hiking, biking and soon, again, cross-country skiing. I
> always have walked the urban scene and still do that altho, less so in
> the wet and dark now approaching. I need to counter activity or lack
> of it against the food intake and keep those balanced. But as we
> discussed in another thread, we made it through last winter losing and
> so this should be just a continuation of a positive balance of food
> and exercise.
>
> Here's to WW and positive thinking.
>
> Fred
>
>
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> wrote:
>
> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
at
> >least somewhat hungry)
> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
I
> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >
> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
> >
> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >
> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
any
> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> >beginning.
> >
> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >
>

[Paul & Suzie Beckwith]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:20:13 -0700, "Chrys" > wrote:

>"Lesanne" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
>be
>> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
>the
>> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
>What is nice about it is knowing that if there is a day that you go over,
>you haven't gone off program. It's allowed. I love the flex points. It
>eliminates having to feel guilty about being over on a day, and the
>corresponding tendency I have to then give up and spend the rest of the
>weekend being bad.
>
>
Can I jump in here and ask - are the flex points you talk about the
same as the weighwatchers points here in the UK? same scheme,
different name? As in, I have to eat 26 points a day to lose weight
(and somehow I am finding that VERY DIFFICULT to eat that many
points...)

Suzie B
(Newbie and still very confused, about to go to first official
weigh-in after joining WW last Wednesday nite...)
--
"From the internet connection under the pier"
Southend, UK
http://community.webshots.com/user/suziekga

[Paper]

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:

Yeah - what she said. This really is a head game. Once you wrap your
head around the idea that you have to eat *enough* to lose, but not so
much that it qualifies as a binge - you're on the right road.

Thanks for posting this.

Paper
250.6/222.8/150
Improvement - not Perfection

>I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so different
>for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
>And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
>permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to the
>end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
>least somewhat hungry)
>Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is early
>on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
>am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight before
>(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
>days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>
>I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
>
>And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
>feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>
>On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every food
>that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal where
>I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
>other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
>eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
>blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
>Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
>every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
>beginning.
>
>It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might be
>a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of the
>huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
>

[Coq]

Nice thread. The SWITCH or TRIGGER to decide to start weight loss is
so important. Like others in this thread I made attempts at trying,
but one day it was time.

I don't fixate about food like I used to. I do sort of miss the
anticipation about food. I used to live to eat and now I eat to live.
It's not that the food the spouse makes, he is the cook in the house,
is not good and tasty, but it is not the focus of the day now.

I have not had to take any trips since I restarted WW and this weekend
will be hitting a B&B on the island so we will see how we do. I am
married to a guy who can take or leave food and often used to just
forget to eat, so food will not be the center of the weekend. But
eating out and resisting tempations like Blackbeards "onion rings"
might prove a challenge.

This thread came along at just the right time.

Coq
247/231/160, in week 10

[Fred]

In the States, the new program is the FLEX points program. You now
get a fixed daily target of 22 or 24 or whatever whereas in the past
you have a range of 22-27 or 24-29. With the new program along with
that fixed value, say 22, you also get immediately at the beginning of
the week 35 points you can use any way you want. In one meal, in 3
days or evenly spread out over the week. EVERYONE no matter what
their fixed daily points gets that same 35 Flex points.

As for getting your minimum, many of us suggest that you really should
(I don't know the English system) and to get there, add olive oil to
cooking or add some nuts or any other high point equivilent point
heavy food that does not have a lot of bulk. The idea is to add
healthy food without much bulk.

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:06:16 GMT,
(Paul & Suzie Beckwith) wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:20:13 -0700, "Chrys" > wrote:
>
>>"Lesanne" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
>>be
>>> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>>> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>>> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
>>the
>>> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>>
>>What is nice about it is knowing that if there is a day that you go over,
>>you haven't gone off program. It's allowed. I love the flex points. It
>>eliminates having to feel guilty about being over on a day, and the
>>corresponding tendency I have to then give up and spend the rest of the
>>weekend being bad.
>>
>>
>Can I jump in here and ask - are the flex points you talk about the
>same as the weighwatchers points here in the UK? same scheme,
>different name? As in, I have to eat 26 points a day to lose weight
>(and somehow I am finding that VERY DIFFICULT to eat that many
>points...)
>
>Suzie B
>(Newbie and still very confused, about to go to first official
>weigh-in after joining WW last Wednesday nite...)

[Kate Dicey]

Paul & Suzie Beckwith wrote:

> >
> Can I jump in here and ask - are the flex points you talk about the
> same as the weighwatchers points here in the UK? same scheme,
> different name? As in, I have to eat 26 points a day to lose weight
> (and somehow I am finding that VERY DIFFICULT to eat that many
> points...)

No, no flex points here in the UK, Suzie. You have the points target,
and have to earn any more through exercise. You can save a few for the
weekend if you want to. If you really have difficulty getting within 3
points of the target, try upping the points value of some foods: use
semi skimmed milk rather than skimmed, add a little extra cheese to
something, use whole milk cheeses rather than half fat ones (which seem
to me to be really revolting, unless we are thinking about things like
philly!), or have a little chocolate at the end of the day.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

[Lesanne]

welcome, and yeah, enough is as important as too much!

"Paper" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> wrote:
>
> Yeah - what she said. This really is a head game. Once you wrap your
> head around the idea that you have to eat *enough* to lose, but not so
> much that it qualifies as a binge - you're on the right road.
>
> Thanks for posting this.
>
> Paper
> 250.6/222.8/150
> Improvement - not Perfection
>
> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
at
> >least somewhat hungry)
> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
I
> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >
> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
> >
> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >
> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
any
> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> >beginning.
> >
> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >
>

[SuzyQ]

"Brenda Hammond" > wrote in message
...
>
> I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
program
> for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and
see
> what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to
be
> able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
knew
> that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all that!
>
> I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any of
> you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>

I found I gained weight doing the Flex points and APs. I can stick to my 20
point target and then eat whatever I want on WI day and be OK. I guess
that's my flex points although I don't count on WI day and I have always
done it that way.
--
SuzyQ
Weight 124
WW Lifetime Membership Feb 03

[Joyce]

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so different
>for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
>And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
>permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to the
>end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
>least somewhat hungry)

I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that even makes
sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a problem. I
knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course my estimate
was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to stick with any
diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many years ago and did
the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had those little
cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on - guess somewhere
in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my thinking and habits
in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced once again by
the high fat, low nutritional value items.

>Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is early
>on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
>am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight before
>(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
>days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.

I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me that they
couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much. My choices
were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of non-healthy items
were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw. The difference
this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more knowledge, as
well as putting that knowledge into play.

>I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.

I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a binge eater. I
do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back for more at
dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have always enjoyed.
You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things. Anyway, what I do
now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a casserole - fill
the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry, or it just
tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real damage being
done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily point total.
If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have bonus points. <G>
It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.

>And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
>feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!

I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably because I have
not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just have to have that
hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal with it, I hold
myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.

>On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every food
>that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal where
>I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
>other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
>eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
>blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
>Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
>every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
>beginning.

I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when I haven't,
usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill, etc.
Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have stated. If I
have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or similar light
dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and continue on in
the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability. I accepted
what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it elsewhere ...
be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I could possibly
fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this trip around.

>It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might be
>a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of the
>huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?

Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really been behaving
too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I have in the
past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the cubbies (lose -
dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza. So what did I
do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the thin crust
variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for dinner, was
incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups worth, and 1/4 of
it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being only a very few
points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My *splurge* ended up
not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food had added up to
.... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My life? It
certainly appears to be so!

I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day anymore. Oh, I
know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not healthy (I just
learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!). That is my
fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use those points up
in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the rest of the
week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do it all over
again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as delays the
knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may work early in
the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do worry that the
possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early on will only
frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes have not been
made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 133.3
Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
>

[Joyce]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> wrote:

>
>"Lesanne" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
>be
>> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
>the
>> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
>I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best program
>for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
>sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and see
>what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to be
>able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I knew
>that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all that!
>
>I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any of
>you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?

Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal to use, they
have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old journals,
they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old winning
points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this means is that
in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the journal tells
me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up the
remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my range is
20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3 flex points
per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is the amount
we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by), leaving 21
flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are deducted. If I
eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't allowed to
be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn them, then I
enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*. So far it's
the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use the forced
flexpoint journal.

Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd rather look
and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the constant
encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages over
eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning points
program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their own,
obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.

Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than dropping the ww
website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 133.3
Lifetime: 4/4/03

[Joyce]

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
>me.
>>
>> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and things
>to
>> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
>bookstore
>> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>
>Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I know
>Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?

Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read it. I
don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me to get my
head into anything that I have to think about. <G>

Joyce

[Lesanne]

Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous meals back
in my crash dieting days...

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
at
> >least somewhat hungry)
>
> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that even
makes
> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
problem. I
> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course my
estimate
> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to stick
with any
> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many years ago
and did
> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had those
little
> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on - guess
somewhere
> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my thinking and
habits
> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced once
again by
> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
>
> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
I
> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>
> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me that
they
> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much. My
choices
> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of non-healthy
items
> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw. The
difference
> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
knowledge, as
> well as putting that knowledge into play.
>
> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
>
> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a binge
eater. I
> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back for
more at
> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have always
enjoyed.
> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things. Anyway, what
I do
> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
casserole - fill
> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry, or it
just
> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real damage
being
> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily point
total.
> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have bonus
points. <G>
> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
>
> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>
> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably because I
have
> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just have to
have that
> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal with it,
I hold
> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
>
> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
any
> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> >beginning.
>
> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when I
haven't,
> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill, etc.
> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have stated.
If I
> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or similar
light
> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
continue on in
> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability. I
accepted
> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
elsewhere ...
> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I could
possibly
> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this trip
around.
>
> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really been
behaving
> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I have in
the
> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the cubbies
(lose -
> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza. So
what did I
> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the thin
crust
> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for dinner, was
> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups worth, and
1/4 of
> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being only a
very few
> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My *splurge*
ended up
> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food had
added up to
> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My life? It
> certainly appears to be so!
>
> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day anymore.
Oh, I
> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not healthy
(I just
> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!). That
is my
> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use those
points up
> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the rest
of the
> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do it
all over
> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as delays the
> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may work
early in
> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do worry
that the
> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early on will
only
> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes have
not been
> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 133.3
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >
> >
>

[Lesanne]

Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
> >me.
> >>
> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
things
> >to
> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
> >bookstore
> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> >
> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I
know
> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>
> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
it. I
> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me to
get my
> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>
> Joyce
>

[Joyce]

And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour Krys,
Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.

I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the quiet
time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure you know
what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more understanding and
patience with what we are going through.

Joyce


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
>> >me.
>> >>
>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
>things
>> >to
>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
>> >bookstore
>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>> >
>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I
>know
>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>>
>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
>it. I
>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me to
>get my
>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>

[Joyce]

ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the opposite
extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a day.

Joyce


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous meals back
>in my crash dieting days...
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
>different
>> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
>> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
>> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
>the
>> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
>at
>> >least somewhat hungry)
>>
>> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that even
>makes
>> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
>problem. I
>> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course my
>estimate
>> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to stick
>with any
>> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many years ago
>and did
>> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had those
>little
>> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on - guess
>somewhere
>> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my thinking and
>habits
>> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced once
>again by
>> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
>>
>> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
>early
>> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
>I
>> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
>before
>> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
>> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>>
>> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me that
>they
>> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much. My
>choices
>> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of non-healthy
>items
>> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw. The
>difference
>> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
>knowledge, as
>> well as putting that knowledge into play.
>>
>> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
>>
>> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a binge
>eater. I
>> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back for
>more at
>> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have always
>enjoyed.
>> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things. Anyway, what
>I do
>> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
>casserole - fill
>> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry, or it
>just
>> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real damage
>being
>> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily point
>total.
>> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have bonus
>points. <G>
>> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
>>
>> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
>> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>>
>> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably because I
>have
>> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just have to
>have that
>> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal with it,
>I hold
>> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
>>
>> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
>food
>> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
>where
>> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
>any
>> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
>> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
>> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
>> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
>> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
>> >beginning.
>>
>> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when I
>haven't,
>> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill, etc.
>> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have stated.
>If I
>> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or similar
>light
>> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
>continue on in
>> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability. I
>accepted
>> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
>elsewhere ...
>> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I could
>possibly
>> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this trip
>around.
>>
>> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
>be
>> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
>the
>> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>>
>> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really been
>behaving
>> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I have in
>the
>> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the cubbies
>(lose -
>> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza. So
>what did I
>> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the thin
>crust
>> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for dinner, was
>> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups worth, and
>1/4 of
>> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being only a
>very few
>> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My *splurge*
>ended up
>> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food had
>added up to
>> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My life? It
>> certainly appears to be so!
>>
>> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day anymore.
>Oh, I
>> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not healthy
>(I just
>> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!). That
>is my
>> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use those
>points up
>> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the rest
>of the
>> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do it
>all over
>> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as delays the
>> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may work
>early in
>> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do worry
>that the
>> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early on will
>only
>> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes have
>not been
>> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 133.3
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >
>> >
>>
>

[Lesanne]

That is a really really good book. And fairly easy reading, which tends to
be necessary ... :).

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour
Krys,
> Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
>
> I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the
quiet
> time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure
you know
> what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
understanding and
> patience with what we are going through.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
for
> >> >me.
> >> >>
> >> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
> >things
> >> >to
> >> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
> >> >bookstore
> >> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> >> >
> >> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out,
I
> >know
> >> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> >>
> >> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
> >it. I
> >> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me
to
> >get my
> >> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
> >
>

[Lesanne]

Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were right
prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to myself
that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that weight
back on.......


"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
opposite
> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a
day.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous meals
back
> >in my crash dieting days...
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
> >different
> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
me.
> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
beneficial
> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get
to
> >the
> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
feeling
> >at
> >> >least somewhat hungry)
> >>
> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that even
> >makes
> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
> >problem. I
> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course my
> >estimate
> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to stick
> >with any
> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many years
ago
> >and did
> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had those
> >little
> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on -
guess
> >somewhere
> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my thinking
and
> >habits
> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced once
> >again by
> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
> >>
> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
> >early
> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but
what
> >I
> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
> >before
> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a
few
> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >>
> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me that
> >they
> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much. My
> >choices
> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
non-healthy
> >items
> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw. The
> >difference
> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
> >knowledge, as
> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
> >>
> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb
2002.
> >>
> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a
binge
> >eater. I
> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back
for
> >more at
> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
always
> >enjoyed.
> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things. Anyway,
what
> >I do
> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
> >casserole - fill
> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry, or
it
> >just
> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
damage
> >being
> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily
point
> >total.
> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have bonus
> >points. <G>
> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
> >>
> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in
fact
> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >>
> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
because I
> >have
> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just have
to
> >have that
> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal with
it,
> >I hold
> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
> >>
> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
> >food
> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
> >where
> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
> >any
> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day
is
> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This,
was
> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more"
pull
> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in
the
> >> >beginning.
> >>
> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when I
> >haven't,
> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill,
etc.
> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have
stated.
> >If I
> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
similar
> >light
> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
> >continue on in
> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability. I
> >accepted
> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
> >elsewhere ...
> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I could
> >possibly
> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this
trip
> >around.
> >>
> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
might
> >be
> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
then
> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware
of
> >the
> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >>
> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really been
> >behaving
> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I have
in
> >the
> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the cubbies
> >(lose -
> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza. So
> >what did I
> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the thin
> >crust
> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for dinner,
was
> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups worth,
and
> >1/4 of
> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being only a
> >very few
> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My *splurge*
> >ended up
> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food had
> >added up to
> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My life?
It
> >> certainly appears to be so!
> >>
> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
anymore.
> >Oh, I
> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not
healthy
> >(I just
> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!).
That
> >is my
> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use
those
> >points up
> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the
rest
> >of the
> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do it
> >all over
> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as delays
the
> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may work
> >early in
> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do
worry
> >that the
> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early on
will
> >only
> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes
have
> >not been
> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Fred]

Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:

>And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour Krys,
>Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
>
>I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the quiet
>time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure you know
>what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more understanding and
>patience with what we are going through.
>
>Joyce
>
>
>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
>>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....
>>
>>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
>>> >me.
>>> >>
>>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
>>things
>>> >to
>>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
>>> >bookstore
>>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>>> >
>>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I
>>know
>>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>>>
>>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
>>it. I
>>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me to
>>get my
>>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>>>
>>> Joyce
>>>
>>

[Deb in Northern California]

Joyce,

Is there a center close by to you? If there is there is something called a
3 month journal that you could use and do the points your way. It might be
an option for you instead of the online journal.

Debbie

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
might
> >be
> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware
of
> >the
> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
program
> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and
see
> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to
be
> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
knew
> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
that!
> >
> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any
of
> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>
> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal to
use, they
> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
journals,
> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
winning
> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this means
is that
> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
journal tells
> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up the
> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my range
is
> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3 flex
points
> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is the
amount
> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
leaving 21
> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are deducted.
If I
> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
allowed to
> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
them, then I
> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*. So
far it's
> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use the
forced
> flexpoint journal.
>
> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
rather look
> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
constant
> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
over
> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
points
> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their own,
> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
>
> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
dropping the ww
> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 133.3
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
>

[Brenda Hammond]

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
might
> >be
> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware
of
> >the
> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
program
> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and
see
> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to
be
> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
knew
> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
that!
> >
> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any
of
> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>
> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing!

Sure you do! Look at how far you've come!

LOL
> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal to
use, they
> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
journals,
> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
winning
> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this means
is that
> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
journal tells
> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up the
> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my range
is
> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3 flex
points
> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is the
amount
> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
leaving 21
> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are deducted.
If I
> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
allowed to
> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
them, then I
> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*. So
far it's
> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use the
forced
> flexpoint journal.

I'm an online WW member too Joyce, so know where you are coming from. I
prefer the winning points system to flex as well, so I'm trying as you are
to still follow winning points. Good luck to us both!

>
> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
rather look
> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
constant
> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
over
> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
points
> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their own,
> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.

Me too. I don't like the idea of all those flexpoints looking me in the
face. Like Lesanne said, it would be too easy to eat them all in a day or
two, then have to get by on your target points for the rest of the week. I
don't know, I'm just not comfortable with the new system. Maybe if I give
it more of a chance it will get better? I just like the old system so much
more.

>
> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
dropping the ww
> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.

Yeah, I was thinking of dropping the website, but haven't been able to talk
myself into it yet either. It's almost like a crutch or something. I'd
like to get to goal before dropping it. We'll see. Have you ever tried the
journals on FitDay or Journal to Success?

>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 133.3
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
>

[Stan]

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:42:10 -0500, "SuzyQ" > wrote:


>I found I gained weight doing the Flex points and APs. I can stick to my 20
>point target and then eat whatever I want on WI day and be OK. I guess
>that's my flex points although I don't count on WI day and I have always
>done it that way.

Boy, one thing I've learned about myself over the years is that if you
tell me I can "eat whatever I want," I can eat a remarkable amount of
food!

15 years ago, diagnosed with high cholesterol, I went on a low-fat
diet. They don't say this now, but back then they said "Eat all the
carbohydrates you want! Carbohydrates are your friends!" Candy was
all right, as long as it wasn't chocolate bars or other candy with
fat. I bought Snackwells and pasta and I baked bread, and put on 30
lbs. My cholesterol went up, too. Let me tell you, I can eat a LOT
of pasta and bread. I remember putting easily six cups of pasta on a
plate, spraying it with ICBINB, sprinkling it with salt and pepper and
a tiny bit of parmesan, and sitting down with a big glass of skim
milk, and going back for seconds. It's the fat that makes you fat,
remember that one?

I did the Atkins thing for a while, with some success. Again, though,
I can eat a LOT of meat and cheese, and in the newsgroup over there,
someone finally said "Well, maybe you should cut back on how much you
eat." This one little voice was so lonely in the sea of people saying
"Eat all the meat you want! Drink oil! Don't forget the cheese!"
After I cut back a little, I lost 17 pounds (and gained it back, plus
60 more, when I stopped).

And that's how I got where I am today (okay, where I was before I
started on WW <g>). Now you go ahead and eat whatever you want on WI
day, but I'm just going to stick my fingers in my ears and say "LA LA
LA LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING I CAN'T HEAR YOU," because you would
be amazed what I could eat on a day where I could eat whatever I want,
and I know that I would start packing on the pounds again.

I'm glad that this works for you, and I really don't mean to pick on
you, but I couldn't help speaking up when all the warning flags went
up in my head. :-)

Stan
9/21/2003
309/295.5/199

[Lesanne]

I wonder about Kelly J every now and then. I even checked her personal site
to see what was up, she looks busy.
And Yeah, where the heck is Lee? (miss V). ??


"Fred" > wrote in message
...
> Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
>
> >And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour
Krys,
> >Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
> >
> >I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the
quiet
> >time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure
you know
> >what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
understanding and
> >patience with what we are going through.
> >
> >Joyce
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >
> >>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
salad....
> >>
> >>"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
for
> >>> >me.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
> >>things
> >>> >to
> >>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
> >>> >bookstore
> >>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> >>> >
> >>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out,
I
> >>know
> >>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> >>>
> >>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never
read
> >>it. I
> >>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me
to
> >>get my
> >>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> >>>
> >>> Joyce
> >>>
> >>
>

[Nathalie W]

and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls, if
you 're reading this, say hi!!!
--
Nathalie from Belgium
134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
SWWC 238/227.3/226

"Lesanne" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I wonder about Kelly J every now and then. I even checked her personal
site
> to see what was up, she looks busy.
> And Yeah, where the heck is Lee? (miss V). ??
>
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
> >
> > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
> >
> > >And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour
> Krys,
> > >Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
> > >
> > >I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find
the
> quiet
> > >time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure
> you know
> > >what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
> understanding and
> > >patience with what we are going through.
> > >
> > >Joyce
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> > >
> > >>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
> salad....
> > >>
> > >>"Joyce" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> > >>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
doors
> for
> > >>> >me.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information
and
> > >>things
> > >>> >to
> > >>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
> > >>> >bookstore
> > >>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it
out,
> I
> > >>know
> > >>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> > >>>
> > >>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never
> read
> > >>it. I
> > >>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow
me
> to
> > >>get my
> > >>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> > >>>
> > >>> Joyce
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
>
>

[Lesanne]

And Andy GEE!!

"Nathalie W" > wrote in message
...
> and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls,
if
> you 're reading this, say hi!!!
> --
> Nathalie from Belgium
> 134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
> 295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
> SWWC 238/227.3/226
>
> "Lesanne" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > I wonder about Kelly J every now and then. I even checked her personal
> site
> > to see what was up, she looks busy.
> > And Yeah, where the heck is Lee? (miss V). ??
> >
> >
> > "Fred" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
> > >
> > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
> > >
> > > >And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot
abour
> > Krys,
> > > >Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
> > > >
> > > >I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find
> the
> > quiet
> > > >time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm
sure
> > you know
> > > >what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
> > understanding and
> > > >patience with what we are going through.
> > > >
> > > >Joyce
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
> > salad....
> > > >>
> > > >>"Joyce" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> > > >>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
> doors
> > for
> > > >>> >me.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information
> and
> > > >>things
> > > >>> >to
> > > >>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to
the
> > > >>> >bookstore
> > > >>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it
> out,
> > I
> > > >>know
> > > >>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never
> > read
> > > >>it. I
> > > >>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't
allow
> me
> > to
> > > >>get my
> > > >>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Joyce
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Michelle Guy]

Hi still around mostly lurking due to work stress and a very bad cold.
WOL not to bad wtih slights ups and downs basically staying the same.
Seem to be motivated ot get back on track, I have just finished my
menu plan for the week with points calculated.
Thanks for asking where I have been its nice to know one is missed, so
back to a minimum of my weekly rapport on Wednesdays after WI
Thanks
Michelle
Ozzie in Switzerland

WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:08:22 +0200, "Nathalie W" >
wrote:

>and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls, if
>you 're reading this, say hi!!!

[Nathalie W]

Glad to hear you 're still there, and very nice to hear you 're still on
track!
--
Nathalie from Belgium
134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
NYNY 227.3/227.3/214

"Michelle Guy" > wrote in message
...
> Hi still around mostly lurking due to work stress and a very bad cold.
> WOL not to bad wtih slights ups and downs basically staying the same.
> Seem to be motivated ot get back on track, I have just finished my
> menu plan for the week with points calculated.
> Thanks for asking where I have been its nice to know one is missed, so
> back to a minimum of my weekly rapport on Wednesdays after WI
> Thanks
> Michelle
> Ozzie in Switzerland
>
> WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs
>
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:08:22 +0200, "Nathalie W" >
> wrote:
>
> >and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls,
if
> >you 're reading this, say hi!!!
>

[Brenda Hammond]

Hi Michelle, nice to hear from you. Work stress and a cold? Yuck! Hope
you start feeling better soon. Take care.
--
Brenda
209/174/150
NYNY goal 160

"Michelle Guy" > wrote in message
...
> Hi still around mostly lurking due to work stress and a very bad cold.
> WOL not to bad wtih slights ups and downs basically staying the same.
> Seem to be motivated ot get back on track, I have just finished my
> menu plan for the week with points calculated.
> Thanks for asking where I have been its nice to know one is missed, so
> back to a minimum of my weekly rapport on Wednesdays after WI
> Thanks
> Michelle
> Ozzie in Switzerland
>
> WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs
>
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:08:22 +0200, "Nathalie W" >
> wrote:
>
> >and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls,
if
> >you 're reading this, say hi!!!
>

[Joyce]

That's good to know. I don't know why but I had it in my head that it was going
to be difficult mind boggling stuff to injest ... so I've kept putting off opening
it. I think that fear of the unknown. I know what's going on, but do I *really*
want to know what's going on? Or do I want to know what is *really* going on?
You know what I mean? I hope to find some quiet time this week-end and get a
start on it. Thanks for the gentle prod. <G>

Joyce


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:39:24 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>That is a really really good book. And fairly easy reading, which tends to
>be necessary ... :).
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour
>Krys,
>> Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
>>
>> I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the
>quiet
>> time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure
>you know
>> what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
>understanding and
>> patience with what we are going through.
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....
>> >
>> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> >> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
>for
>> >> >me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
>> >things
>> >> >to
>> >> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
>> >> >bookstore
>> >> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>> >> >
>> >> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out,
>I
>> >know
>> >> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>> >>
>> >> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
>> >it. I
>> >> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me
>to
>> >get my
>> >> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

[Joyce]

Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed by the
occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself. That might be
when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all. I've been
telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am letting this
weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any points
back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn right
back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always *considering* losing a
few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I know I don't
need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
>feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were right
>prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to myself
>that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that weight
>back on.......
>
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
>opposite
>> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a
>day.
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous meals
>back
>> >in my crash dieting days...
>> >
>> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
>> >different
>> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
>me.
>> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
>beneficial
>> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get
>to
>> >the
>> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
>feeling
>> >at
>> >> >least somewhat hungry)
>> >>
>> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that even
>> >makes
>> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
>> >problem. I
>> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course my
>> >estimate
>> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to stick
>> >with any
>> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many years
>ago
>> >and did
>> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had those
>> >little
>> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on -
>guess
>> >somewhere
>> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my thinking
>and
>> >habits
>> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced once
>> >again by
>> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
>> >>
>> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
>> >early
>> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but
>what
>> >I
>> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
>> >before
>> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a
>few
>> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>> >>
>> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me that
>> >they
>> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much. My
>> >choices
>> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
>non-healthy
>> >items
>> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw. The
>> >difference
>> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
>> >knowledge, as
>> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
>> >>
>> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb
>2002.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a
>binge
>> >eater. I
>> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back
>for
>> >more at
>> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
>always
>> >enjoyed.
>> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things. Anyway,
>what
>> >I do
>> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
>> >casserole - fill
>> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry, or
>it
>> >just
>> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
>damage
>> >being
>> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily
>point
>> >total.
>> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have bonus
>> >points. <G>
>> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
>> >>
>> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in
>fact
>> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>> >>
>> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
>because I
>> >have
>> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just have
>to
>> >have that
>> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal with
>it,
>> >I hold
>> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
>> >>
>> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
>> >food
>> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
>> >where
>> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
>> >any
>> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
>> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day
>is
>> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This,
>was
>> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more"
>pull
>> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in
>the
>> >> >beginning.
>> >>
>> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when I
>> >haven't,
>> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill,
>etc.
>> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have
>stated.
>> >If I
>> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
>similar
>> >light
>> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
>> >continue on in
>> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability. I
>> >accepted
>> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
>> >elsewhere ...
>> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I could
>> >possibly
>> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this
>trip
>> >around.
>> >>
>> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
>might
>> >be
>> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
>then
>> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware
>of
>> >the
>> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>> >>
>> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really been
>> >behaving
>> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I have
>in
>> >the
>> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the cubbies
>> >(lose -
>> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza. So
>> >what did I
>> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the thin
>> >crust
>> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for dinner,
>was
>> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups worth,
>and
>> >1/4 of
>> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being only a
>> >very few
>> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My *splurge*
>> >ended up
>> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food had
>> >added up to
>> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My life?
>It
>> >> certainly appears to be so!
>> >>
>> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
>anymore.
>> >Oh, I
>> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not
>healthy
>> >(I just
>> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!).
>That
>> >is my
>> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use
>those
>> >points up
>> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the
>rest
>> >of the
>> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do it
>> >all over
>> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as delays
>the
>> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may work
>> >early in
>> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do
>worry
>> >that the
>> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early on
>will
>> >only
>> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes
>have
>> >not been
>> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> >> current weight: 133.3
>> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

[Joyce]

Yup, they are missing in action also and I have been wondering about both. I
believe Sara posted several weeks ago, but it's been an awful long time since I've
heard anything from Kelly. The last thing I remember was the possibility of her
story being aired by John Walsh ... and I was hoping to hear the outcome of that.
Guess I'll wander over to her website and make sure she is ok.

Joyce


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:30:27 -0700, Fred > wrote:

>Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
>
>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
>
>>And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour Krys,
>>Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
>>
>>I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find the quiet
>>time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure you know
>>what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more understanding and
>>patience with what we are going through.
>>
>>Joyce
>>
>>
>>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>>>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber salad....
>>>
>>>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>>>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
>>>> >me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information and
>>>things
>>>> >to
>>>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
>>>> >bookstore
>>>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>>>> >
>>>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it out, I
>>>know
>>>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>>>>
>>>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never read
>>>it. I
>>>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow me to
>>>get my
>>>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>>>>
>>>> Joyce
>>>>
>>>

[Carol in NC]

I think that is the "diet mentality" talking to you, Joyce. I've found that
no matter how much weight I lose, I still look at myself as a fat person.
I've been this way for so long that it's hard to break out of that mold.

Carol

--
.................................................. ...........
318/250/169
68 lost since December 2002
I am a slim person in process.
.................................................. .............
"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed by
the
> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself. That
might be
> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
I've been
> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am letting
this
> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
points
> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
right
> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always *considering*
losing a
> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I know I
don't
> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
right
> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
myself
> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
weight
> >back on.......
> >
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
> >opposite
> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a
> >day.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous
meals
> >back
> >> >in my crash dieting days...
> >> >
> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
> >> >different
> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the
book
> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
for
> >me.
> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
> >beneficial
> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to
get
> >to
> >> >the
> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
> >feeling
> >> >at
> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
> >> >>
> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that
even
> >> >makes
> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
> >> >problem. I
> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course
my
> >> >estimate
> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to
stick
> >> >with any
> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many
years
> >ago
> >> >and did
> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had
those
> >> >little
> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on -
> >guess
> >> >somewhere
> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
thinking
> >and
> >> >habits
> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced
once
> >> >again by
> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time,
is
> >> >early
> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but
> >what
> >> >I
> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
weight
> >> >before
> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with
a
> >few
> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >> >>
> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me
that
> >> >they
> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much.
My
> >> >choices
> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
> >non-healthy
> >> >items
> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw.
The
> >> >difference
> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
> >> >knowledge, as
> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
> >> >>
> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb
> >2002.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a
> >binge
> >> >eater. I
> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back
> >for
> >> >more at
> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
> >always
> >> >enjoyed.
> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
Anyway,
> >what
> >> >I do
> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
> >> >casserole - fill
> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry,
or
> >it
> >> >just
> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
> >damage
> >> >being
> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily
> >point
> >> >total.
> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have
bonus
> >> >points. <G>
> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
> >> >>
> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals,
in
> >fact
> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
> >because I
> >> >have
> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just
have
> >to
> >> >have that
> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal
with
> >it,
> >> >I hold
> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
> >> >>
> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten
every
> >> >food
> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a
meal
> >> >where
> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4
of
> >> >any
> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of
the
> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the
day
> >is
> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day.
This,
> >was
> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more"
> >pull
> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in
> >the
> >> >> >beginning.
> >> >>
> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when
I
> >> >haven't,
> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill,
> >etc.
> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have
> >stated.
> >> >If I
> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
> >similar
> >> >light
> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
> >> >continue on in
> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability.
I
> >> >accepted
> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
> >> >elsewhere ...
> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I
could
> >> >possibly
> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this
> >trip
> >> >around.
> >> >>
> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
> >might
> >> >be
> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
> >then
> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
that
> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
aware
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >>
> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really
been
> >> >behaving
> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I
have
> >in
> >> >the
> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
cubbies
> >> >(lose -
> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza.
So
> >> >what did I
> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the
thin
> >> >crust
> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
dinner,
> >was
> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
worth,
> >and
> >> >1/4 of
> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being
only a
> >> >very few
> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
*splurge*
> >> >ended up
> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food
had
> >> >added up to
> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My
life?
> >It
> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
> >> >>
> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
> >anymore.
> >> >Oh, I
> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not
> >healthy
> >> >(I just
> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!).
> >That
> >> >is my
> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use
> >those
> >> >points up
> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the
> >rest
> >> >of the
> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do
it
> >> >all over
> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as
delays
> >the
> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may
work
> >> >early in
> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do
> >worry
> >> >that the
> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early
on
> >will
> >> >only
> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes
> >have
> >> >not been
> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Joyce]

There's a center about 6 miles or so from me. I could give them a call to see if
they sell items to people who are not members. I have heard that some stores will
do this willingly, others will only cater to their own clients. I have no problem
making my own journal in excel though, or just using a plain notebook. I'm just
whining about the online program (and I do it so well). <G> The little money I
spend on it for a month I consider well spent if it keeps me focused and
motivated.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:34:58 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
> wrote:

>Joyce,
>
>Is there a center close by to you? If there is there is something called a
>3 month journal that you could use and do the points your way. It might be
>an option for you instead of the online journal.
>
>Debbie
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>
>> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
>might
>> >be
>> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
>> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
>> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware
>of
>> >the
>> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>> >
>> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
>program
>> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
>> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program and
>see
>> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used to
>be
>> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
>knew
>> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
>that!
>> >
>> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any
>of
>> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>>
>> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
>> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal to
>use, they
>> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
>journals,
>> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
>winning
>> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this means
>is that
>> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
>journal tells
>> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up the
>> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my range
>is
>> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3 flex
>points
>> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is the
>amount
>> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
>leaving 21
>> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are deducted.
>If I
>> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
>allowed to
>> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
>them, then I
>> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*. So
>far it's
>> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use the
>forced
>> flexpoint journal.
>>
>> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
>rather look
>> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
>constant
>> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
>over
>> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
>points
>> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their own,
>> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
>>
>> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
>dropping the ww
>> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 133.3
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>>
>>
>

[Joyce]

>
>> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are any
>of
>> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>>
>> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing!
>
>Sure you do! Look at how far you've come!

Ahhhhhhhhh, see? I have everyone fooled! <G> I'm just not sure what program I
can say I am using ... guess a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

>LOL
>> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal to
>use, they
>> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
>journals,
>> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
>winning
>> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this means
>is that
>> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
>journal tells
>> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up the
>> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my range
>is
>> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3 flex
>points
>> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is the
>amount
>> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
>leaving 21
>> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are deducted.
>If I
>> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
>allowed to
>> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
>them, then I
>> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*. So
>far it's
>> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use the
>forced
>> flexpoint journal.
>
>I'm an online WW member too Joyce, so know where you are coming from. I
>prefer the winning points system to flex as well, so I'm trying as you are
>to still follow winning points. Good luck to us both!

If it worked for us, why change it? I know, change can be good ... but it's hard
to work my head around it. I think my head is still going in winning points gear
though - just adapted the flex point system to work around the other.

>>
>> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
>rather look
>> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
>constant
>> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
>over
>> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
>points
>> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their own,
>> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
>
>Me too. I don't like the idea of all those flexpoints looking me in the
>face. Like Lesanne said, it would be too easy to eat them all in a day or
>two, then have to get by on your target points for the rest of the week. I
>don't know, I'm just not comfortable with the new system. Maybe if I give
>it more of a chance it will get better? I just like the old system so much
>more.

The other problem I am having now is having the too low target number staring at
me. When I am within a point or two of that number, I panic - can't figure out
how the heck I can stay within that goal. When the brain kicks in and tells me
that *oh, you still have another 6 points to use* (3 from the upped range, 3 from
AP's) I am ok. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen very often for me ... or
happens too late. I'm finding that I am more often than not eating too little. I
wonder why they don't include the activity points in the bottom total, especially
since they are no longer allowed to be banked.

>>
>> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
>dropping the ww
>> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
>
>Yeah, I was thinking of dropping the website, but haven't been able to talk
>myself into it yet either. It's almost like a crutch or something. I'd
>like to get to goal before dropping it. We'll see. Have you ever tried the
>journals on FitDay or Journal to Success?

I love fitday, but it also means keeping another journal because there is no place
to input the points. I've tried journal to success, is nice but it seems to be a
bit quirky. Somedays I have no journals to go back to, other days a few show up.
I gave up, was frustrated with entering and reentering the same info over and
over. I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but I can't figure out what.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

[Joyce]

YES! I always looked forward to Andy's NY and scooter updates, as well as his
Trader Joe finds. And we can't forget Alan ... our resident expert that was so
incredibly knowledgable on all the confusing scientific stuff, and well able to
put it into words that I could understand.

If you guys are still around, please pop in and say hey!

Joyce


On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:07:26 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>And Andy GEE!!
>
>"Nathalie W" > wrote in message
...
>> and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls,
>if
>> you 're reading this, say hi!!!
>> --
>> Nathalie from Belgium
>> 134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
>> 295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
>> SWWC 238/227.3/226
>>
>> "Lesanne" > wrote in message
>> link.net...
>> > I wonder about Kelly J every now and then. I even checked her personal
>> site
>> > to see what was up, she looks busy.
>> > And Yeah, where the heck is Lee? (miss V). ??
>> >
>> >
>> > "Fred" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot
>abour
>> > Krys,
>> > > >Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
>> > > >
>> > > >I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find
>> the
>> > quiet
>> > > >time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm
>sure
>> > you know
>> > > >what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
>> > understanding and
>> > > >patience with what we are going through.
>> > > >
>> > > >Joyce
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" >
>wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
>> > salad....
>> > > >>
>> > > >>"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" >
>> > wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
>> > > >>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
>> doors
>> > for
>> > > >>> >me.
>> > > >>> >>
>> > > >>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information
>> and
>> > > >>things
>> > > >>> >to
>> > > >>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to
>the
>> > > >>> >bookstore
>> > > >>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
>> > > >>> >
>> > > >>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it
>> out,
>> > I
>> > > >>know
>> > > >>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never
>> > read
>> > > >>it. I
>> > > >>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't
>allow
>> me
>> > to
>> > > >>get my
>> > > >>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Joyce
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

[Joyce]

Nice to see you again Michelle, and glad to hear you are hanging in there!

Joyce


On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:49:03 +0200, Michelle Guy > wrote:

>Hi still around mostly lurking due to work stress and a very bad cold.
>WOL not to bad wtih slights ups and downs basically staying the same.
>Seem to be motivated ot get back on track, I have just finished my
>menu plan for the week with points calculated.
>Thanks for asking where I have been its nice to know one is missed, so
>back to a minimum of my weekly rapport on Wednesdays after WI
>Thanks
>Michelle
>Ozzie in Switzerland
>
>WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs
>
>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:08:22 +0200, "Nathalie W" >
>wrote:
>
>>and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls, if
>>you 're reading this, say hi!!!

[Lesanne]

I think you will find that it is a comfort.

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> That's good to know. I don't know why but I had it in my head that it was
going
> to be difficult mind boggling stuff to injest ... so I've kept putting off
opening
> it. I think that fear of the unknown. I know what's going on, but do I
*really*
> want to know what's going on? Or do I want to know what is *really* going
on?
> You know what I mean? I hope to find some quiet time this week-end and
get a
> start on it. Thanks for the gentle prod. <G>
>
> Joyce
>
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:39:24 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >That is a really really good book. And fairly easy reading, which tends
to
> >be necessary ... :).
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot abour
> >Krys,
> >> Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
> >>
> >> I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to find
the
> >quiet
> >> time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm sure
> >you know
> >> what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
> >understanding and
> >> patience with what we are going through.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
salad....
> >> >
> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >> >> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
doors
> >for
> >> >> >me.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good information
and
> >> >things
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over to the
> >> >> >bookstore
> >> >> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned it
out,
> >I
> >> >know
> >> >> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> >> >>
> >> >> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book, never
read
> >> >it. I
> >> >> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't allow
me
> >to
> >> >get my
> >> >> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> >> >>
> >> >> Joyce
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Lesanne]

I think it is important to stay somewhere in the normal BMI for your height.
What would that be for you? If 130 is in there, then I don't see you
hurting yourself trying to get there, particularly if you feel well. If it
is underweight for you? I would say that it was time to see about adding
some points :).

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed by
the
> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself. That
might be
> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
I've been
> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am letting
this
> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
points
> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
right
> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always *considering*
losing a
> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I know I
don't
> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
right
> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
myself
> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
weight
> >back on.......
> >
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
> >opposite
> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a
> >day.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous
meals
> >back
> >> >in my crash dieting days...
> >> >
> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
> >> >different
> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the
book
> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
for
> >me.
> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
> >beneficial
> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to
get
> >to
> >> >the
> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
> >feeling
> >> >at
> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
> >> >>
> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that
even
> >> >makes
> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
> >> >problem. I
> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course
my
> >> >estimate
> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to
stick
> >> >with any
> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many
years
> >ago
> >> >and did
> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had
those
> >> >little
> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on -
> >guess
> >> >somewhere
> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
thinking
> >and
> >> >habits
> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced
once
> >> >again by
> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time,
is
> >> >early
> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but
> >what
> >> >I
> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
weight
> >> >before
> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with
a
> >few
> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >> >>
> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me
that
> >> >they
> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much.
My
> >> >choices
> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
> >non-healthy
> >> >items
> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw.
The
> >> >difference
> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
> >> >knowledge, as
> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
> >> >>
> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb
> >2002.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a
> >binge
> >> >eater. I
> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back
> >for
> >> >more at
> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
> >always
> >> >enjoyed.
> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
Anyway,
> >what
> >> >I do
> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
> >> >casserole - fill
> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry,
or
> >it
> >> >just
> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
> >damage
> >> >being
> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily
> >point
> >> >total.
> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have
bonus
> >> >points. <G>
> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
> >> >>
> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals,
in
> >fact
> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
> >because I
> >> >have
> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just
have
> >to
> >> >have that
> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal
with
> >it,
> >> >I hold
> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
> >> >>
> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten
every
> >> >food
> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a
meal
> >> >where
> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4
of
> >> >any
> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of
the
> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the
day
> >is
> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day.
This,
> >was
> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more"
> >pull
> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in
> >the
> >> >> >beginning.
> >> >>
> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when
I
> >> >haven't,
> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill,
> >etc.
> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have
> >stated.
> >> >If I
> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
> >similar
> >> >light
> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
> >> >continue on in
> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability.
I
> >> >accepted
> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
> >> >elsewhere ...
> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I
could
> >> >possibly
> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this
> >trip
> >> >around.
> >> >>
> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
> >might
> >> >be
> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
> >then
> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
that
> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
aware
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >>
> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really
been
> >> >behaving
> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I
have
> >in
> >> >the
> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
cubbies
> >> >(lose -
> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza.
So
> >> >what did I
> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the
thin
> >> >crust
> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
dinner,
> >was
> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
worth,
> >and
> >> >1/4 of
> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being
only a
> >> >very few
> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
*splurge*
> >> >ended up
> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food
had
> >> >added up to
> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My
life?
> >It
> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
> >> >>
> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
> >anymore.
> >> >Oh, I
> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not
> >healthy
> >> >(I just
> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!).
> >That
> >> >is my
> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use
> >those
> >> >points up
> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the
> >rest
> >> >of the
> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do
it
> >> >all over
> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as
delays
> >the
> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may
work
> >> >early in
> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do
> >worry
> >> >that the
> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early
on
> >will
> >> >only
> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes
> >have
> >> >not been
> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Lesanne]

I will send you one if you cannot get it otherwise. Just let me know and I
will send you my actual E addy.

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> There's a center about 6 miles or so from me. I could give them a call to
see if
> they sell items to people who are not members. I have heard that some
stores will
> do this willingly, others will only cater to their own clients. I have no
problem
> making my own journal in excel though, or just using a plain notebook.
I'm just
> whining about the online program (and I do it so well). <G> The little
money I
> spend on it for a month I consider well spent if it keeps me focused and
> motivated.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:34:58 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
> > wrote:
>
> >Joyce,
> >
> >Is there a center close by to you? If there is there is something called
a
> >3 month journal that you could use and do the points your way. It might
be
> >an option for you instead of the online journal.
> >
> >Debbie
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
> >> ink.net...
> >>
> >> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
> >might
> >> >be
> >> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
then
> >> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
that
> >> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
aware
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >
> >> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
> >program
> >> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> >> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program
and
> >see
> >> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used
to
> >be
> >> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
> >knew
> >> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
> >that!
> >> >
> >> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are
any
> >of
> >> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
> >>
> >> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
> >> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal
to
> >use, they
> >> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
> >journals,
> >> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
> >winning
> >> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this
means
> >is that
> >> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
> >journal tells
> >> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up
the
> >> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my
range
> >is
> >> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3
flex
> >points
> >> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is
the
> >amount
> >> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
> >leaving 21
> >> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are
deducted.
> >If I
> >> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
> >allowed to
> >> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
> >them, then I
> >> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*.
So
> >far it's
> >> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use
the
> >forced
> >> flexpoint journal.
> >>
> >> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
> >rather look
> >> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
> >constant
> >> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
> >over
> >> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
> >points
> >> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their
own,
> >> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
> >>
> >> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
> >dropping the ww
> >> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[Deb in Northern California]

Joyce,

Email me directly. I have something you might be interested in, that if you
do want, I will mail to you.

Debbie

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> There's a center about 6 miles or so from me. I could give them a call to
see if
> they sell items to people who are not members. I have heard that some
stores will
> do this willingly, others will only cater to their own clients. I have no
problem
> making my own journal in excel though, or just using a plain notebook.
I'm just
> whining about the online program (and I do it so well). <G> The little
money I
> spend on it for a month I consider well spent if it keeps me focused and
> motivated.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:34:58 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
> > wrote:
>
> >Joyce,
> >
> >Is there a center close by to you? If there is there is something called
a
> >3 month journal that you could use and do the points your way. It might
be
> >an option for you instead of the online journal.
> >
> >Debbie
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
> >> ink.net...
> >>
> >> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
> >might
> >> >be
> >> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
then
> >> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
that
> >> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
aware
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >
> >> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
> >program
> >> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
> >> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program
and
> >see
> >> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used
to
> >be
> >> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
> >knew
> >> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
> >that!
> >> >
> >> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are
any
> >of
> >> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
> >>
> >> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
> >> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal
to
> >use, they
> >> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
> >journals,
> >> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
> >winning
> >> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this
means
> >is that
> >> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
> >journal tells
> >> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up
the
> >> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my
range
> >is
> >> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3
flex
> >points
> >> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is
the
> >amount
> >> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
> >leaving 21
> >> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are
deducted.
> >If I
> >> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
> >allowed to
> >> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
> >them, then I
> >> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*.
So
> >far it's
> >> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use
the
> >forced
> >> flexpoint journal.
> >>
> >> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
> >rather look
> >> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
> >constant
> >> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
> >over
> >> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
> >points
> >> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their
own,
> >> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
> >>
> >> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
> >dropping the ww
> >> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[Nathalie W]

And of course let 's not forget our Joy. I 'm pretty sure she 's still
reading us... hey girl, how are you doing?
--
Nathalie from Belgium
134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
NYNY 227.3/227.3/214

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> YES! I always looked forward to Andy's NY and scooter updates, as well as
his
> Trader Joe finds. And we can't forget Alan ... our resident expert that
was so
> incredibly knowledgable on all the confusing scientific stuff, and well
able to
> put it into words that I could understand.
>
> If you guys are still around, please pop in and say hey!
>
> Joyce
>
>
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:07:26 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >And Andy GEE!!
> >
> >"Nathalie W" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey
girls,
> >if
> >> you 're reading this, say hi!!!
> >> --
> >> Nathalie from Belgium
> >> 134.1/103.1/minigoal 102.3 Goal 68 Kg
> >> 295.6/227.3/minigoal 225.6/Goal 150 pounds
> >> SWWC 238/227.3/226
> >>
> >> "Lesanne" > wrote in message
> >> link.net...
> >> > I wonder about Kelly J every now and then. I even checked her
personal
> >> site
> >> > to see what was up, she looks busy.
> >> > And Yeah, where the heck is Lee? (miss V). ??
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Fred" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > > Miss Violet and one or two Kelly's, one the 100 mile bike rider....
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:29:27 -0500, Joyce > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >And where has Thyme disappeared to? I've also been thinking alot
> >abour
> >> > Krys,
> >> > > >Petal, Ozzie ... hoping all is well with them.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >I do have one heavy reading book sitting here waiting for me to
find
> >> the
> >> > quiet
> >> > > >time necessary to read and understand it ... The 36 hour day. I'm
> >sure
> >> > you know
> >> > > >what it's all about, just thought it might give me a bit more
> >> > understanding and
> >> > > >patience with what we are going through.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Joyce
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:20:25 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> >wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >>Well then it musta been Thyme of the eyeball inverting cucumber
> >> > salad....
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> > > ...
> >> > > >>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:16:05 GMT, "Lesanne"
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> >>>There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> >> > > >>> >> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some
mental
> >> doors
> >> > for
> >> > > >>> >me.
> >> > > >>> >>
> >> > > >>> >> It sounds like this book really gave you some good
information
> >> and
> >> > > >>things
> >> > > >>> >to
> >> > > >>> >> think about. I'd like to read it. I'm going to walk over
to
> >the
> >> > > >>> >bookstore
> >> > > >>> >> today and see if I can find it. Is it new?
> >> > > >>> >
> >> > > >>> >Not new. The author is a P guy, I don't have my copy, loaned
it
> >> out,
> >> > I
> >> > > >>know
> >> > > >>> >Joyce read it too, maybe she knows?
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Sure wish I could help you but I've never heard of the book,
never
> >> > read
> >> > > >>it. I
> >> > > >>> don't read much self help type of things. The family doesn't
> >allow
> >> me
> >> > to
> >> > > >>get my
> >> > > >>> head into anything that I have to think about. <G>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Joyce
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

[Michelle Guy]

Thanks yes I am feeling better, I even statred working out again last
week, just 2 easy workouts no stress. It seems to work though my
scales that have been stuck forever ( well maybe not that long) are
starting to show a downward trend.
Michelle
Ozzie in Switzerland

WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 07:33:02 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
> wrote:

>Hi Michelle, nice to hear from you. Work stress and a cold? Yuck! Hope
>you start feeling better soon. Take care.

[Michelle Guy]

Thanks nice to now I was missed, somehow it makes me feel more
accountable. This is a great newsgroup with some wonderful people.

Michelle
Ozzie in Switzerland

WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 13:07:44 -0500, Joyce > wrote:

>Nice to see you again Michelle, and glad to hear you are hanging in there!
>
>Joyce
>
>
>On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 09:49:03 +0200, Michelle Guy > wrote:
>
>>Hi still around mostly lurking due to work stress and a very bad cold.
>>WOL not to bad wtih slights ups and downs basically staying the same.
>>Seem to be motivated ot get back on track, I have just finished my
>>menu plan for the week with points calculated.
>>Thanks for asking where I have been its nice to know one is missed, so
>>back to a minimum of my weekly rapport on Wednesdays after WI
>>Thanks
>>Michelle
>>Ozzie in Switzerland
>>
>>WW WI 69.8 / 65.6 / 61kg 134 lbs
>>
>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:08:22 +0200, "Nathalie W" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>and Michelle Guy, the Ozzie in Switzerland, and Medium Gnome? Hey girls, if
>>>you 're reading this, say hi!!!

[Joyce]

Could be. I still have problems buying clothing - have it in my mind that the
current size I'm wearing is just a fluke ... you know, like maybe the brand runs
large? So I grab the larger size and end up running back to the rack to get the
smaller ones anyway. I hope someday it will permanently sink in.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:17:24 GMT, "Carol in NC" > wrote:

>I think that is the "diet mentality" talking to you, Joyce. I've found that
>no matter how much weight I lose, I still look at myself as a fat person.
>I've been this way for so long that it's hard to break out of that mold.
>
>Carol
>
>--
>.................................................. ..........
>318/250/169
>68 lost since December 2002
>I am a slim person in process.
>.................................................. ............
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed by
>the
>> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself. That
>might be
>> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
>I've been
>> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am letting
>this
>> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
>points
>> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
>right
>> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always *considering*
>losing a
>> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I know I
>don't
>> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 132.2
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>>
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
>> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
>right
>> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
>myself
>> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
>weight
>> >back on.......
>> >

[Joyce]

According to the charts, to keep my BMI between 18.5 and 25 (what they say is a
normal range) my weight should be 118-155. So I could go quite a ways further
down before being out of the normal BMI range. No way do I realistically think I
could maintain at 118, nor do I want to try. When I was in my early 20's I did
sway between 115-125, but add 20+ years and a few pregnancies ... bodies change,
metabolism changes, lifestyle changes. At the moment my BMI is 21.3, pretty close
to the middle of the healthy zone.

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:16:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>I think it is important to stay somewhere in the normal BMI for your height.
>What would that be for you? If 130 is in there, then I don't see you
>hurting yourself trying to get there, particularly if you feel well. If it
>is underweight for you? I would say that it was time to see about adding
>some points :).
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed by
>the
>> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself. That
>might be
>> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
>I've been
>> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am letting
>this
>> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
>points
>> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
>right
>> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always *considering*
>losing a
>> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I know I
>don't
>> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 132.2
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>>
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by the
>> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
>right
>> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
>myself
>> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
>weight
>> >back on.......
>> >
>> >
>> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
>> >opposite
>> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal a
>> >day.
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous
>meals
>> >back
>> >> >in my crash dieting days...
>> >> >
>> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
>> >> >different
>> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the
>book
>> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors
>for
>> >me.
>> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
>> >beneficial
>> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to
>get
>> >to
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
>> >feeling
>> >> >at
>> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if that
>even
>> >> >makes
>> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was a
>> >> >problem. I
>> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of course
>my
>> >> >estimate
>> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to
>stick
>> >> >with any
>> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many
>years
>> >ago
>> >> >and did
>> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had
>those
>> >> >little
>> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back on -
>> >guess
>> >> >somewhere
>> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
>thinking
>> >and
>> >> >habits
>> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced
>once
>> >> >again by
>> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time,
>is
>> >> >early
>> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but
>> >what
>> >> >I
>> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
>weight
>> >> >before
>> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with
>a
>> >few
>> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me
>that
>> >> >they
>> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat much.
>My
>> >> >choices
>> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
>> >non-healthy
>> >> >items
>> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever saw.
>The
>> >> >difference
>> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive more
>> >> >knowledge, as
>> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb
>> >2002.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being a
>> >binge
>> >> >eater. I
>> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going back
>> >for
>> >> >more at
>> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
>> >always
>> >> >enjoyed.
>> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
>Anyway,
>> >what
>> >> >I do
>> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
>> >> >casserole - fill
>> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am hungry,
>or
>> >it
>> >> >just
>> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
>> >damage
>> >> >being
>> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my daily
>> >point
>> >> >total.
>> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have
>bonus
>> >> >points. <G>
>> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals,
>in
>> >fact
>> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
>> >because I
>> >> >have
>> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just
>have
>> >to
>> >> >have that
>> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal
>with
>> >it,
>> >> >I hold
>> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten
>every
>> >> >food
>> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a
>meal
>> >> >where
>> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4
>of
>> >> >any
>> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of
>the
>> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the
>day
>> >is
>> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day.
>This,
>> >was
>> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more"
>> >pull
>> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in
>> >the
>> >> >> >beginning.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions when
>I
>> >> >haven't,
>> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or ill,
>> >etc.
>> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you have
>> >stated.
>> >> >If I
>> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
>> >similar
>> >> >light
>> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything, and
>> >> >continue on in
>> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and accountability.
>I
>> >> >accepted
>> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter it
>> >> >elsewhere ...
>> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I
>could
>> >> >possibly
>> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that this
>> >trip
>> >> >around.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
>> >might
>> >> >be
>> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
>> >then
>> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
>that
>> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
>aware
>> >of
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have really
>been
>> >> >behaving
>> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I
>have
>> >in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
>cubbies
>> >> >(lose -
>> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking pizza.
>So
>> >> >what did I
>> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the
>thin
>> >> >crust
>> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
>dinner,
>> >was
>> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
>worth,
>> >and
>> >> >1/4 of
>> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being
>only a
>> >> >very few
>> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
>*splurge*
>> >> >ended up
>> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days food
>had
>> >> >added up to
>> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My
>life?
>> >It
>> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
>> >anymore.
>> >> >Oh, I
>> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something not
>> >healthy
>> >> >(I just
>> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22 points!).
>> >That
>> >> >is my
>> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do use
>> >those
>> >> >points up
>> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer* the
>> >rest
>> >> >of the
>> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can do
>it
>> >> >all over
>> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as
>delays
>> >the
>> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may
>work
>> >> >early in
>> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I do
>> >worry
>> >> >that the
>> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes early
>on
>> >will
>> >> >only
>> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and changes
>> >have
>> >> >not been
>> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Joyce
>> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> >> >> current weight: 133.3
>> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

[Joyce]

Thanks for the offer Lesanne. I thought about it this week and decided I really
don't need an *official* ww journal. I really don't see the need. I cleaned my
office out and found half a dozen unused spiral notebooks - sure can't be overly
difficult to manually write my own figures, if I decide to go that route in the
future. For the moment, and at least through the holidays, I am going to stick
with the online program. It's a crutch, it works for me ... and I do want that
added focus during the next few months.

Thanks again,

Joyce


On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:18:22 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>I will send you one if you cannot get it otherwise. Just let me know and I
>will send you my actual E addy.
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> There's a center about 6 miles or so from me. I could give them a call to
>see if
>> they sell items to people who are not members. I have heard that some
>stores will
>> do this willingly, others will only cater to their own clients. I have no
>problem
>> making my own journal in excel though, or just using a plain notebook.
>I'm just
>> whining about the online program (and I do it so well). <G> The little
>money I
>> spend on it for a month I consider well spent if it keeps me focused and
>> motivated.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 132.2
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:34:58 -0700, "Deb in Northern California"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Joyce,
>> >
>> >Is there a center close by to you? If there is there is something called
>a
>> >3 month journal that you could use and do the points your way. It might
>be
>> >an option for you instead of the online journal.
>> >
>> >Debbie
>> >
>> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:50 -0700, "Brenda Hammond"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Lesanne" > wrote in message
>> >> ink.net...
>> >>
>> >> >> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing
>> >might
>> >> >be
>> >> >> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day,
>then
>> >> >> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping
>that
>> >> >> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
>aware
>> >of
>> >> >the
>> >> >> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>> >> >
>> >> >I agree completely. I am still not convinced that Flex is the best
>> >program
>> >> >for me. I really liked the old program, found it much easier and more
>> >> >sensible. I'm going to try to follow the basics of the old program
>and
>> >see
>> >> >what difference that makes. Besides I lost 30+ pounds on it! I used
>to
>> >be
>> >> >able to eat 27 point max on the old system, if I didn't exercise and I
>> >knew
>> >> >that once that 27 was gone, that was it. Flex certainly changes all
>> >that!
>> >> >
>> >> >I know most of you maintainers are still going to meetings, but are
>any
>> >of
>> >> >you still following the old program? Lesanne, Fred, Suzy or Joyce?
>> >>
>> >> Honestly? I don't know what the heck I am doing! LOL
>> >> Being and online ww member, we are given no choice as to what journal
>to
>> >use, they
>> >> have forced us into the flexpoint system. Even if I go back to my old
>> >journals,
>> >> they have all be reverted to flexpoints. I'm trying to stay on the old
>> >winning
>> >> points system, and cheat it into the flexpoint journal. What this
>means
>> >is that
>> >> in my head I know what my point range is, so have to ignore what the
>> >journal tells
>> >> me. I also have to dummy out some of those flex points, and divvy up
>the
>> >> remaining to be used over the course of the day. For example, if my
>range
>> >is
>> >> 20-25 - the journal says I am allowed 22 points. That allows me 3
>flex
>> >points
>> >> per day to stay within my range. I dummy out 14 flex points (which is
>the
>> >amount
>> >> we all noticed early on that ww increased the flexpoint system by),
>> >leaving 21
>> >> flexpoints. If I eat at the top of my range, the flexpoints are
>deducted.
>> >If I
>> >> eat at the bottom, they stay there to be used another day. AP aren't
>> >allowed to
>> >> be banked ... I do it anyway. If they aren't eaten on the day I earn
>> >them, then I
>> >> enter them in the next days journal as *bogus ap's banked from xxx*.
>So
>> >far it's
>> >> the only way I've found that I can go back to the old system, yet use
>the
>> >forced
>> >> flexpoint journal.
>> >>
>> >> Like you, I don't like the thinking behind the flexpoint system. I'd
>> >rather look
>> >> and plan ahead - not fly by the seat of my pants. I don't want the
>> >constant
>> >> encouragement of extra points staring at me. I feel it only encourages
>> >over
>> >> eating or making unhealthy choices. I lost 95 pounds on the winning
>> >points
>> >> program - so no one will convince me it doesn't work! To each their
>own,
>> >> obviously. I just wish ww would give us a choice.
>> >>
>> >> Do I like it? NO! Don't have much of a choice though, other than
>> >dropping the ww
>> >> website which I haven't been able to convince myself to do yet.
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> >> current weight: 133.3
>> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

[Lesanne]

Ah. So you are fine. Worry not. :)

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> According to the charts, to keep my BMI between 18.5 and 25 (what they say
is a
> normal range) my weight should be 118-155. So I could go quite a ways
further
> down before being out of the normal BMI range. No way do I realistically
think I
> could maintain at 118, nor do I want to try. When I was in my early 20's
I did
> sway between 115-125, but add 20+ years and a few pregnancies ... bodies
change,
> metabolism changes, lifestyle changes. At the moment my BMI is 21.3,
pretty close
> to the middle of the healthy zone.
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:16:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >I think it is important to stay somewhere in the normal BMI for your
height.
> >What would that be for you? If 130 is in there, then I don't see you
> >hurting yourself trying to get there, particularly if you feel well. If
it
> >is underweight for you? I would say that it was time to see about adding
> >some points :).
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed
by
> >the
> >> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself.
That
> >might be
> >> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
> >I've been
> >> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am
letting
> >this
> >> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
> >points
> >> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
> >right
> >> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always
*considering*
> >losing a
> >> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I
know I
> >don't
> >> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> current weight: 132.2
> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >>
> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by
the
> >> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
> >right
> >> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
> >myself
> >> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
> >weight
> >> >back on.......
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
> >> >opposite
> >> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal
a
> >> >day.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joyce
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous
> >meals
> >> >back
> >> >> >in my crash dieting days...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> >wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip
so
> >> >> >different
> >> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the
> >book
> >> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
doors
> >for
> >> >me.
> >> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
> >> >beneficial
> >> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to
> >get
> >> >to
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
> >> >feeling
> >> >> >at
> >> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if
that
> >even
> >> >> >makes
> >> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was
a
> >> >> >problem. I
> >> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of
course
> >my
> >> >> >estimate
> >> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to
> >stick
> >> >> >with any
> >> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many
> >years
> >> >ago
> >> >> >and did
> >> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had
> >those
> >> >> >little
> >> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back
on -
> >> >guess
> >> >> >somewhere
> >> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
> >thinking
> >> >and
> >> >> >habits
> >> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced
> >once
> >> >> >again by
> >> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this
time,
> >is
> >> >> >early
> >> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple,
but
> >> >what
> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
> >weight
> >> >> >before
> >> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that
with
> >a
> >> >few
> >> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me
> >that
> >> >> >they
> >> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat
much.
> >My
> >> >> >choices
> >> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
> >> >non-healthy
> >> >> >items
> >> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever
saw.
> >The
> >> >> >difference
> >> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive
more
> >> >> >knowledge, as
> >> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since
Feb
> >> >2002.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being
a
> >> >binge
> >> >> >eater. I
> >> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going
back
> >> >for
> >> >> >more at
> >> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
> >> >always
> >> >> >enjoyed.
> >> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
> >Anyway,
> >> >what
> >> >> >I do
> >> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
> >> >> >casserole - fill
> >> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am
hungry,
> >or
> >> >it
> >> >> >just
> >> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
> >> >damage
> >> >> >being
> >> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my
daily
> >> >point
> >> >> >total.
> >> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have
> >bonus
> >> >> >points. <G>
> >> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big
meals,
> >in
> >> >fact
> >> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
> >> >because I
> >> >> >have
> >> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just
> >have
> >> >to
> >> >> >have that
> >> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal
> >with
> >> >it,
> >> >> >I hold
> >> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten
> >every
> >> >> >food
> >> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had
a
> >meal
> >> >> >where
> >> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent
of 4
> >of
> >> >> >any
> >> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end
of
> >the
> >> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the
> >day
> >> >is
> >> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day.
> >This,
> >> >was
> >> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me
more"
> >> >pull
> >> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling
in
> >> >the
> >> >> >> >beginning.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions
when
> >I
> >> >> >haven't,
> >> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or
ill,
> >> >etc.
> >> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you
have
> >> >stated.
> >> >> >If I
> >> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
> >> >similar
> >> >> >light
> >> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything,
and
> >> >> >continue on in
> >> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and
accountability.
> >I
> >> >> >accepted
> >> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter
it
> >> >> >elsewhere ...
> >> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I
> >could
> >> >> >possibly
> >> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that
this
> >> >trip
> >> >> >around.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points
thing
> >> >might
> >> >> >be
> >> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one
day,
> >> >then
> >> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like
keeping
> >that
> >> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
> >aware
> >> >of
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have
really
> >been
> >> >> >behaving
> >> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I
> >have
> >> >in
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
> >cubbies
> >> >> >(lose -
> >> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking
pizza.
> >So
> >> >> >what did I
> >> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the
> >thin
> >> >> >crust
> >> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
> >dinner,
> >> >was
> >> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
> >worth,
> >> >and
> >> >> >1/4 of
> >> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being
> >only a
> >> >> >very few
> >> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
> >*splurge*
> >> >> >ended up
> >> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days
food
> >had
> >> >> >added up to
> >> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My
> >life?
> >> >It
> >> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
> >> >anymore.
> >> >> >Oh, I
> >> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something
not
> >> >healthy
> >> >> >(I just
> >> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22
points!).
> >> >That
> >> >> >is my
> >> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do
use
> >> >those
> >> >> >points up
> >> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer*
the
> >> >rest
> >> >> >of the
> >> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can
do
> >it
> >> >> >all over
> >> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as
> >delays
> >> >the
> >> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may
> >work
> >> >> >early in
> >> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I
do
> >> >worry
> >> >> >that the
> >> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes
early
> >on
> >> >will
> >> >> >only
> >> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and
changes
> >> >have
> >> >> >not been
> >> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> >> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Joyce]

Yeah, I'm nowhere close to skin and bones. <grin> I have noticed that those
little side handles have dwindled considerably now, tummy skin is continuing to
tighten up but I fear there will always be somewhat of a sag there. Can I blame
it on the kids? <grin>

Joyce
WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
current weight: 132.2
Lifetime: 4/4/03

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:43:09 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:

>Ah. So you are fine. Worry not. :)
>
>"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
>> According to the charts, to keep my BMI between 18.5 and 25 (what they say
>is a
>> normal range) my weight should be 118-155. So I could go quite a ways
>further
>> down before being out of the normal BMI range. No way do I realistically
>think I
>> could maintain at 118, nor do I want to try. When I was in my early 20's
>I did
>> sway between 115-125, but add 20+ years and a few pregnancies ... bodies
>change,
>> metabolism changes, lifestyle changes. At the moment my BMI is 21.3,
>pretty close
>> to the middle of the healthy zone.
>>
>> Joyce
>> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> current weight: 132.2
>> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>>
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:16:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>>
>> >I think it is important to stay somewhere in the normal BMI for your
>height.
>> >What would that be for you? If 130 is in there, then I don't see you
>> >hurting yourself trying to get there, particularly if you feel well. If
>it
>> >is underweight for you? I would say that it was time to see about adding
>> >some points :).
>> >
>> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself, followed
>by
>> >the
>> >> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself.
>That
>> >might be
>> >> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at all.
>> >I've been
>> >> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am
>letting
>> >this
>> >> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding any
>> >points
>> >> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly turn
>> >right
>> >> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always
>*considering*
>> >losing a
>> >> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I
>know I
>> >don't
>> >> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> >> current weight: 132.2
>> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed by
>the
>> >> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that were
>> >right
>> >> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking to
>> >myself
>> >> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of that
>> >weight
>> >> >back on.......
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of the
>> >> >opposite
>> >> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small meal
>a
>> >> >day.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Joyce
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" >
>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat enormous
>> >meals
>> >> >back
>> >> >> >in my crash dieting days...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne" >
>> >wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip
>so
>> >> >> >different
>> >> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the
>> >book
>> >> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
>doors
>> >for
>> >> >me.
>> >> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
>> >> >beneficial
>> >> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to
>> >get
>> >> >to
>> >> >> >the
>> >> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes
>> >> >feeling
>> >> >> >at
>> >> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if
>that
>> >even
>> >> >> >makes
>> >> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there was
>a
>> >> >> >problem. I
>> >> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of
>course
>> >my
>> >> >> >estimate
>> >> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough to
>> >stick
>> >> >> >with any
>> >> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up many
>> >years
>> >> >ago
>> >> >> >and did
>> >> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I had
>> >those
>> >> >> >little
>> >> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back
>on -
>> >> >guess
>> >> >> >somewhere
>> >> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
>> >thinking
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >habits
>> >> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon replaced
>> >once
>> >> >> >again by
>> >> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this
>time,
>> >is
>> >> >> >early
>> >> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple,
>but
>> >> >what
>> >> >> >I
>> >> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
>> >weight
>> >> >> >before
>> >> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that
>with
>> >a
>> >> >few
>> >> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell me
>> >that
>> >> >> >they
>> >> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat
>much.
>> >My
>> >> >> >choices
>> >> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
>> >> >non-healthy
>> >> >> >items
>> >> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever
>saw.
>> >The
>> >> >> >difference
>> >> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to receive
>more
>> >> >> >knowledge, as
>> >> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since
>Feb
>> >> >2002.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall being
>a
>> >> >binge
>> >> >> >eater. I
>> >> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love going
>back
>> >> >for
>> >> >> >more at
>> >> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I have
>> >> >always
>> >> >> >enjoyed.
>> >> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
>> >Anyway,
>> >> >what
>> >> >> >I do
>> >> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving of a
>> >> >> >casserole - fill
>> >> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am
>hungry,
>> >or
>> >> >it
>> >> >> >just
>> >> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any real
>> >> >damage
>> >> >> >being
>> >> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my
>daily
>> >> >point
>> >> >> >total.
>> >> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I have
>> >bonus
>> >> >> >points. <G>
>> >> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big
>meals,
>> >in
>> >> >fact
>> >> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either. Probably
>> >> >because I
>> >> >> >have
>> >> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I just
>> >have
>> >> >to
>> >> >> >have that
>> >> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I deal
>> >with
>> >> >it,
>> >> >> >I hold
>> >> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten
>> >every
>> >> >> >food
>> >> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had
>a
>> >meal
>> >> >> >where
>> >> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent
>of 4
>> >of
>> >> >> >any
>> >> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end
>of
>> >the
>> >> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the
>> >day
>> >> >is
>> >> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day.
>> >This,
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me
>more"
>> >> >pull
>> >> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling
>in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >> >beginning.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are occasions
>when
>> >I
>> >> >> >haven't,
>> >> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ... or
>ill,
>> >> >etc.
>> >> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you
>have
>> >> >stated.
>> >> >> >If I
>> >> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad or
>> >> >similar
>> >> >> >light
>> >> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything,
>and
>> >> >> >continue on in
>> >> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and
>accountability.
>> >I
>> >> >> >accepted
>> >> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to counter
>it
>> >> >> >elsewhere ...
>> >> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only way I
>> >could
>> >> >> >possibly
>> >> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that
>this
>> >> >trip
>> >> >> >around.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points
>thing
>> >> >might
>> >> >> >be
>> >> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one
>day,
>> >> >then
>> >> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like
>keeping
>> >that
>> >> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious
>> >aware
>> >> >of
>> >> >> >the
>> >> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have
>really
>> >been
>> >> >> >behaving
>> >> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day like I
>> >have
>> >> >in
>> >> >> >the
>> >> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
>> >cubbies
>> >> >> >(lose -
>> >> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking
>pizza.
>> >So
>> >> >> >what did I
>> >> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that the
>> >thin
>> >> >> >crust
>> >> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
>> >dinner,
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
>> >worth,
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >1/4 of
>> >> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up being
>> >only a
>> >> >> >very few
>> >> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
>> >*splurge*
>> >> >> >ended up
>> >> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days
>food
>> >had
>> >> >> >added up to
>> >> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal. My
>> >life?
>> >> >It
>> >> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one day
>> >> >anymore.
>> >> >> >Oh, I
>> >> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something
>not
>> >> >healthy
>> >> >> >(I just
>> >> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22
>points!).
>> >> >That
>> >> >> >is my
>> >> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do
>use
>> >> >those
>> >> >> >points up
>> >> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to *suffer*
>the
>> >> >rest
>> >> >> >of the
>> >> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they can
>do
>> >it
>> >> >> >all over
>> >> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well as
>> >delays
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it may
>> >work
>> >> >> >early in
>> >> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more. I
>do
>> >> >worry
>> >> >> >that the
>> >> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes
>early
>> >on
>> >> >will
>> >> >> >only
>> >> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and
>changes
>> >> >have
>> >> >> >not been
>> >> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Joyce
>> >> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
>> >> >> >> current weight: 133.3
>> >> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

[Lesanne]

Hey, funny you should mention that. I have some SEVERE skin issues after
losing and gaining and losing and gaining, and having been over 350 at least
once, maybe twice. The weightlifting has certainly made a difference. And
the less fat under the skin, the less the skin hangs. Just this last 5
pounds has made a difference in my stomach. The skin sticks to the muscle
under there, but in teeny little ripples. I think it is hysterical. One of
the joys of being Single (there are a couple) is that I don't have to hate
it, unless I decide too. I can decide it is cute. So I did.

"Joyce" > wrote in message
...
> Yeah, I'm nowhere close to skin and bones. <grin> I have noticed that
those
> little side handles have dwindled considerably now, tummy skin is
continuing to
> tighten up but I fear there will always be somewhat of a sag there. Can I
blame
> it on the kids? <grin>
>
> Joyce
> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> current weight: 132.2
> Lifetime: 4/4/03
>
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:43:09 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
>
> >Ah. So you are fine. Worry not. :)
> >
> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> According to the charts, to keep my BMI between 18.5 and 25 (what they
say
> >is a
> >> normal range) my weight should be 118-155. So I could go quite a ways
> >further
> >> down before being out of the normal BMI range. No way do I
realistically
> >think I
> >> could maintain at 118, nor do I want to try. When I was in my early
20's
> >I did
> >> sway between 115-125, but add 20+ years and a few pregnancies ...
bodies
> >change,
> >> metabolism changes, lifestyle changes. At the moment my BMI is 21.3,
> >pretty close
> >> to the middle of the healthy zone.
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> current weight: 132.2
> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >>
> >> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:16:39 GMT, "Lesanne" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I think it is important to stay somewhere in the normal BMI for your
> >height.
> >> >What would that be for you? If 130 is in there, then I don't see you
> >> >hurting yourself trying to get there, particularly if you feel well.
If
> >it
> >> >is underweight for you? I would say that it was time to see about
adding
> >> >some points :).
> >> >
> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> Ok, I can relate to this. I do remember the starving myself,
followed
> >by
> >> >the
> >> >> occassional blow out meals - then feelings of disgust about myself.
> >That
> >> >might be
> >> >> when my mind finally kicked in and refused to allow me to eat at
all.
> >> >I've been
> >> >> telling myself for quite some time now that there is no way I am
> >letting
> >> >this
> >> >> weight come back on. I do wonder if that's why I still fear adding
any
> >> >points
> >> >> back to my routine. I can add them for a day or so, but I quickly
turn
> >> >right
> >> >> back. I'm doing well at maintaining - but still am always
> >*considering*
> >> >losing a
> >> >> few more (130 is sounding really great to me today). Even though I
> >know I
> >> >don't
> >> >> need to. Conquering those mind games is a really tough thing to do.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> >> current weight: 132.2
> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:40:58 GMT, "Lesanne" >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Yeah, me too, but the one small meal for about a week was followed
by
> >the
> >> >> >feeding frenzy day, and the feelings of failure and dispair that
were
> >> >right
> >> >> >prior to the giving up part. I was sitting this evening thinking
to
> >> >myself
> >> >> >that now that I am here, no way in the world am I letting any of
that
> >> >weight
> >> >> >back on.......
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> ooooooh, I'd love to have a long lost sister!!! I was more of
the
> >> >> >opposite
> >> >> >> extreme ... diets tended to be not eating at all - or one small
meal
> >a
> >> >> >day.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:18:39 GMT, "Lesanne" >
> >wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Yeah. You must be my long lost sister, except I did eat
enormous
> >> >meals
> >> >> >back
> >> >> >> >in my crash dieting days...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Joyce" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:44:17 GMT, "Lesanne"
>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this
trip
> >so
> >> >> >> >different
> >> >> >> >> >for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with
the
> >> >book
> >> >> >> >> >"changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental
> >doors
> >> >for
> >> >> >me.
> >> >> >> >> >And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any
> >> >> >beneficial
> >> >> >> >> >permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order
to
> >> >get
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without
sometimes
> >> >> >feeling
> >> >> >> >at
> >> >> >> >> >least somewhat hungry)
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I think my past problems always were denial and ignorance, if
> >that
> >> >even
> >> >> >> >makes
> >> >> >> >> sense. By avoiding stepping on the scale, I could deny there
was
> >a
> >> >> >> >problem. I
> >> >> >> >> knew I was overweight, but only could guess at how much. Of
> >course
> >> >my
> >> >> >> >estimate
> >> >> >> >> was going to be very low. <G> Lack of willpower made it tough
to
> >> >stick
> >> >> >> >with any
> >> >> >> >> diet for long, boredom was another issue. I did get fed up
many
> >> >years
> >> >> >ago
> >> >> >> >and did
> >> >> >> >> the NutriSystem program, was very successful ... as long as I
had
> >> >those
> >> >> >> >little
> >> >> >> >> cardboard food containers. Ignorance brought the weight back
> >on -
> >> >> >guess
> >> >> >> >somewhere
> >> >> >> >> in my head I wasn't willing to admit that I had to change my
> >> >thinking
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >habits
> >> >> >> >> in order to keep the weight off. Little boxes were soon
replaced
> >> >once
> >> >> >> >again by
> >> >> >> >> the high fat, low nutritional value items.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this
> >time,
> >> >is
> >> >> >> >early
> >> >> >> >> >on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very
simple,
> >but
> >> >> >what
> >> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> >> >am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost
> >> >weight
> >> >> >> >before
> >> >> >> >> >(countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that
> >with
> >> >a
> >> >> >few
> >> >> >> >> >days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big
meals.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I never was much of an over-eater. I've often had people tell
me
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >they
> >> >> >> >> couldn't believe I was overweight because I didn't really eat
> >much.
> >> >My
> >> >> >> >choices
> >> >> >> >> were extremely poor ... and early evening boredom munchies of
> >> >> >non-healthy
> >> >> >> >items
> >> >> >> >> were things that no one else (other than family members) ever
> >saw.
> >> >The
> >> >> >> >difference
> >> >> >> >> this time around for me seemed to be the willingness to
receive
> >more
> >> >> >> >knowledge, as
> >> >> >> >> well as putting that knowledge into play.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since
> >Feb
> >> >> >2002.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I don't know if I can say that or not, I don't ever recall
being
> >a
> >> >> >binge
> >> >> >> >eater. I
> >> >> >> >> do play kind of a game with myself though. I know I love
going
> >back
> >> >> >for
> >> >> >> >more at
> >> >> >> >> dinnertime - don't know why, it's just one of those things I
have
> >> >> >always
> >> >> >> >enjoyed.
> >> >> >> >> You know ... tastes so good you just have to kind of things.
> >> >Anyway,
> >> >> >what
> >> >> >> >I do
> >> >> >> >> now is put about 2 oz of meat of my plate, or half a serving
of a
> >> >> >> >casserole - fill
> >> >> >> >> the rest up with veggies. This way if I decide I still am
> >hungry,
> >> >or
> >> >> >it
> >> >> >> >just
> >> >> >> >> tastes so darned good that I do want more - there isn't any
real
> >> >> >damage
> >> >> >> >being
> >> >> >> >> done. I've already calculated the *full* serving size into my
> >daily
> >> >> >point
> >> >> >> >total.
> >> >> >> >> If I decide I am not hungry and don't want anymore, then I
have
> >> >bonus
> >> >> >> >points. <G>
> >> >> >> >> It's a wierd way of handling things, but it works for me.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big
> >meals,
> >> >in
> >> >> >fact
> >> >> >> >> >feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I don't dream of big meals or particular items either.
Probably
> >> >> >because I
> >> >> >> >have
> >> >> >> >> not once denied myself of any particular item. If I feel I
just
> >> >have
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> >have that
> >> >> >> >> hot fudge sundae (me and my chocolate!) - then I have it. I
deal
> >> >with
> >> >> >it,
> >> >> >> >I hold
> >> >> >> >> myself accountable, I make room for it elsewhere, I go on.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time,
eaten
> >> >every
> >> >> >> >food
> >> >> >> >> >that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I
had
> >a
> >> >meal
> >> >> >> >where
> >> >> >> >> >I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the
equivalent
> >of 4
> >> >of
> >> >> >> >any
> >> >> >> >> >other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the
end
> >of
> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck
the
> >> >day
> >> >> >is
> >> >> >> >> >blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that
day.
> >> >This,
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >> >Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me
> >more"
> >> >> >pull
> >> >> >> >> >every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was
grueling
> >in
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >beginning.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I use most of my points, most of the time. There are
occasions
> >when
> >> >I
> >> >> >> >haven't,
> >> >> >> >> usually if I'm running around and don't have time to eat ...
or
> >ill,
> >> >> >etc.
> >> >> >> >> Eventually it all works out. Very often I do the same as you
> >have
> >> >> >stated.
> >> >> >> >If I
> >> >> >> >> have a big lunch, then dinner will usually be soup and a salad
or
> >> >> >similar
> >> >> >> >light
> >> >> >> >> dinner. I refused to give up or think that I blew everything,
> >and
> >> >> >> >continue on in
> >> >> >> >> the same mode. Again, I think it is knowledge and
> >accountability.
> >> >I
> >> >> >> >accepted
> >> >> >> >> what I did, I enjoyed it. I knew that it was possible to
counter
> >it
> >> >> >> >elsewhere ...
> >> >> >> >> be it the next meal, the next day, the next week. The only
way I
> >> >could
> >> >> >> >possibly
> >> >> >> >> fail was to give up entirely - and I wasn't willing to do that
> >this
> >> >> >trip
> >> >> >> >around.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points
> >thing
> >> >> >might
> >> >> >> >be
> >> >> >> >> >a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one
> >day,
> >> >> >then
> >> >> >> >> >tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like
> >keeping
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >> >mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the
subconsious
> >> >aware
> >> >> >of
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> >huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Same here, it is my life! Lately I've been thinking I have
> >really
> >> >been
> >> >> >> >behaving
> >> >> >> >> too good (if that is possible). I haven't relaxed one day
like I
> >> >have
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> past. Even last nite ... had to have pizza while watching the
> >> >cubbies
> >> >> >> >(lose -
> >> >> >> >> dang!). It has been so long since I splurged on a snacking
> >pizza.
> >> >So
> >> >> >> >what did I
> >> >> >> >> do? Looked at the darned nutrition labels and realized that
the
> >> >thin
> >> >> >> >crust
> >> >> >> >> variety really wasn't that bad in points. I had made soup for
> >> >dinner,
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >> incredibly low in points (I think the entire batch was 16 cups
> >> >worth,
> >> >> >and
> >> >> >> >1/4 of
> >> >> >> >> it was something like 4 or 5 points). So, dinner ended up
being
> >> >only a
> >> >> >> >very few
> >> >> >> >> points - lunch was the same (fake eggs, fruit and salad). My
> >> >*splurge*
> >> >> >> >ended up
> >> >> >> >> not being a splurge - I had never realized how little my days
> >food
> >> >had
> >> >> >> >added up to
> >> >> >> >> ... until the evening when I finally made it to the journal.
My
> >> >life?
> >> >> >It
> >> >> >> >> certainly appears to be so!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I can't begin to imagine eating all those flex points in one
day
> >> >> >anymore.
> >> >> >> >Oh, I
> >> >> >> >> know it's possible and very easy if they are used on something
> >not
> >> >> >healthy
> >> >> >> >(I just
> >> >> >> >> learned a peanut butter cup blizzard is something like 22
> >points!).
> >> >> >That
> >> >> >> >is my
> >> >> >> >> fear with the flex point system though. That many will and do
> >use
> >> >> >those
> >> >> >> >points up
> >> >> >> >> in the first day or two after weighing ... then have to
*suffer*
> >the
> >> >> >rest
> >> >> >> >of the
> >> >> >> >> week, all the time looking so forward to weigh in day so they
can
> >do
> >> >it
> >> >> >> >all over
> >> >> >> >> again. I think this method only prolongs the agony, as well
as
> >> >delays
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >> knowledge and forming of new/good/healthy habits. I think it
may
> >> >work
> >> >> >> >early in
> >> >> >> >> the program, lets you think you are really able to get more.
I
> >do
> >> >> >worry
> >> >> >> >that the
> >> >> >> >> possible effect of prolonging making those lifestyle changes
> >early
> >> >on
> >> >> >will
> >> >> >> >only
> >> >> >> >> frustrate people later - when the losses naturally slow and
> >changes
> >> >> >have
> >> >> >> >not been
> >> >> >> >> made. Just my thoughts and feelings anyway.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Joyce
> >> >> >> >> WW starting weight: 228.8 - 2/5/02
> >> >> >> >> current weight: 133.3
> >> >> >> >> Lifetime: 4/4/03
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

[Miss Violette]

I was reading in the archives of my newsgroup and read this one. I think
this post should be posted on a website for everyone to consider as it is an
excellent post. As to the question about flex points, you might be right.
I have never been a volume eater until zero point vegetables on WW I tend to
use my flex points for point dense foods, like grilled cheese with real
butter, thanks for posting this one as it really did make me think, Lee
Lesanne > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
different
> for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for me.
> And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
the
> end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling at
> least somewhat hungry)
> Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
early
> on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what I
> am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
before
> (countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
>
> I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
>
> And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in fact
> feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
>
> On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
food
> that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
where
> I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of any
> other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This, was
> Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> beginning.
>
> It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
be
> a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
the
> huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
>
>
>

[Lesanne]

welcome :)
and thanks for the compliment on the post

"Miss Violette" > wrote in message
s.com...
> I was reading in the archives of my newsgroup and read this one. I think
> this post should be posted on a website for everyone to consider as it is
an
> excellent post. As to the question about flex points, you might be right.
> I have never been a volume eater until zero point vegetables on WW I tend
to
> use my flex points for point dense foods, like grilled cheese with real
> butter, thanks for posting this one as it really did make me think, Lee
> Lesanne > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > I have been doing a lot of cogitating about what made this trip so
> different
> > for me this time. There are tons of things, beginning with the book
> > "changing for good" that I read, that opened up some mental doors for
me.
> > And some other things I had not accepted before such as, any beneficial
> > permanent change is going to take some effort (pain) in order to get to
> the
> > end of it. (I was not getting to goal weight without sometimes feeling
at
> > least somewhat hungry)
> > Anyway. I think one of the most IMPORTANT things I did this time, is
> early
> > on I put the breaks on overeating. Now that seems very simple, but what
I
> > am talking about here is the binge/diet thing. I always lost weight
> before
> > (countless times) by dieting REALLY strictly and cycling that with a few
> > days of eating the way I did while gaining weight. Big meals.
> >
> > I can honestly say that I have not had a meal like that since Feb 2002.
> >
> > And today I don't Want to eat that way, don't dream of big meals, in
fact
> > feel kind of disgusted by the idea. Gross!
> >
> > On the other hand, I have used my points Most of the time, eaten every
> food
> > that appealed to me using moderation, the entire way. If I had a meal
> where
> > I had one of Blackbeards onion rings (these are the equivalent of 4 of
any
> > other I have ever seen, and awesome) then that meal was the end of the
> > eating day for me instead of a trigger for "oh what the heck the day is
> > blown" thinking. 0 point soup if I got hungry again that day. This,
was
> > Very Very hard in the beginning. I would feel the "give me more" pull
> > every time I ate something like that. Resisting it was grueling in the
> > beginning.
> >
> > It is So a part of my life now! I think the new flex points thing might
> be
> > a problem for people if they ate, say their 24 plus 35 in one day, then
> > tried to go to 24 daily the rest of the week. It is like keeping that
> > mindset alive, the overeating mindset. Keeping the subconsious aware of
> the
> > huge plate of food being acceptable. What do you guys think?
> >
> >
> >
>
>