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Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 14th, 2011, 06:37 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Tanya Möller
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Posts: 1
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

Hi,

Does anyone have a substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and
meatballs?
I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.

Kind Regards
  #2  
Old December 14th, 2011, 11:22 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
FOB
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Posts: 231
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

I use TVP in meatloaf but some people have an aversion to soy products.
Actually, fish cakes don't need anything. I make salmon patties with canned
salmon, chopped celery and onion, and eggs. I flavor mine with curry
powder. Two eggs to each small can of salmon. The eggs hold it together.
You can eat pork, chicken, any kind of fresh fish as long as it's not
battered.

Tanya Möller wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Does anyone have a substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and
| meatballs?
| I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
| grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.
|
| Kind Regards

  #3  
Old December 15th, 2011, 04:30 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
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Posts: 993
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

On Dec 14, 5:22*pm, "FOB" wrote:
I use TVP in meatloaf but some people have an aversion to soy products.
Actually, fish cakes don't need anything. *I make salmon patties with canned
salmon, chopped celery and onion, and eggs. *I flavor mine with curry
powder. *Two eggs to each small can of salmon. *The eggs hold it together.
You can eat pork, chicken, any kind of fresh fish as long as it's not
battered.


The key thing breadcrumbs add is that they make the meatballs
softer. You could leave them out, just use egg as a binder and
the meatballs will just come out firmer, which may be an acceptable
solution. The other big advantage, particularly for commercial
producers is that it extends the product at very little cost compared
to beef. If making them without breadcrumbs, I'd make sure to
use a mix that has a decent fat content, as that is another way
to keep them soft. You don't want the 90%
lean mix. Best choice may be meatloaf mix which is usually
beef, pork, veal. And don't overcook them, which again will
make them harder.

Like Susan, I've also used TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein),
which is a soy
product that is granular. I rehydrate it in hot veg broth before
mixiing
it in. I also use more onion, as that will also increase the moisture
content. Of the things discussed that can be added, the TVP is
probably the best for induction as it's lowest in carbs. You can
find it in many supermarkets where they sell the specialty flour
and grain type products. Also health food stores have it.

I haven't made fishcakes in a while, but I don't think I added
any filler type product to them at all. Just tuna, sauted peppers,
onions, egg and seasonings. The commercial versions of
these sadly are mostly all bad. Far too much temptation to
use less fish, more filler. Crab cakes are the worst example.
The best ones have very little filler, just some saltines and
you could leave those out too.

And when I make any of the above
I don't use a recipe, so they can vary, but they've always come
out quite tasty. Don't be afraid to experiment. With meatballs
for example you can put the core stuff into the whole thing,
then divide it into 3, trying differenct ingredients on them.
As long as you don't do something really crazy, they should
all be at least OK.
  #4  
Old December 15th, 2011, 06:09 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,864
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

Tanya Möller wrote:

Does anyone have a substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and
meatballs?


There is no need to put fillers in those items. They are better
without. Flavor them with celery and herbs and such and don't bother
with the fillers.

There is no reason to go "no" carb in anything. You're low carbing not
no carbing. At a half gram per meatball that has as much as half celery
and peppers there's a vast amount of flavoring that works just fine.
Look through the "ultra low carb list" aka the "under 10% by weight
list" aka the "salad ingredient list" of foods. After deducting fiber
many of those veggies are extremely low and they make fine flavoring
ingredients. There's a lot more than just lettuce on that list.

There is no need to put a coating on fried items. Try it and you'll see
a fair number of foods are better fried without breading than with it.
Try it with chicken and see. Heck, try it with brocolli florets and
see. Did you know that brocolli florets can be cooked other ways than
just deep fried in the fondue pot? Brocolli can be cooked all sorts of
ways.

Anyways, that said there are a few extremely low carb ways to crust
foods for pan frying or deep frying. Doctor Atkins was partial to
macadamia nut crusting. Expensive but he was a millionaire after all.
Some folks like using crushed chicherones aka fried pork rinds. They
get soggy easily so the timing is tighter than for cheap starchy junk
coatings.

I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.


Mental attitude. Induction by the book lasts two weeks. That is a very
short time scale. It's a big change in a very short time. Don't worry.
The confusion passes. You get used to the new shopping and cooking and
eating patterns very soon. Think of it like going through a boot camp
initiation. Tough to do but after you've finished the rest is easy
because none of it is anywhere near as hard. Looking farther forward
gives a better perspective of the short term change.
  #5  
Old December 16th, 2011, 04:44 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Patricia Martin Steward[_3_]
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Posts: 7
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:37:31 -0800 (PST), Tanya Möller
wrote:

I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.


Good heavens.

I just cracked open my Atkins book for the first time in... gosh,
years... and at the back there are more than 100 pages of low-carb
recipes. There are MANY more things to eat than you've noted.

If you don't have or want the book, there are tons of online web
pages, forums, recipe sites... even the old traditional allrecipes.com
has a low-carb section. Look them up! I've gotten some great ideas
from them.


  #6  
Old December 18th, 2011, 06:20 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
pamela
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Posts: 47
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

On 2011-12-16 09:44, Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:37:31 -0800 (PST), Tanya Möller
wrote:

I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.


Good heavens.

I just cracked open my Atkins book for the first time in... gosh,
years... and at the back there are more than 100 pages of low-carb
recipes. There are MANY more things to eat than you've noted.

If you don't have or want the book, there are tons of online web
pages, forums, recipe sites... even the old traditional allrecipes.com
has a low-carb section. Look them up! I've gotten some great ideas
from them.


Dana Carpender in her latest "1001 Low Carb Recipes" gives a Salmon
Pattie recipe using canned salmon, oat bran, an egg, scallions sliced
and butter. The recipe she provides gives a net carbcount of 7 grams.

She hasa a recipe for fried catfish.

There are seven low carb cracker recipes, which would be good starts as
a bread crumb substitute for a fish patty. One of the recipes is cited
as a substitute for Cheese Nips.The cracker carb counts range from 1
gram to 3 grams.

It is astonishing how little people will pay for useful information.
Well, not really astonishing, but something else.
  #7  
Old December 18th, 2011, 04:48 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,864
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

pamela wrote:
Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
Tanya Möller wrote:


I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.


I just cracked open my Atkins book for the first time in... gosh,
years... and at the back there are more than 100 pages of low-carb
recipes. There are MANY more things to eat than you've noted.


Dana Carpender in her latest "1001 Low Carb Recipes" gives a Salmon
Pattie recipe using canned salmon, oat bran, an egg, scallions sliced
and butter. The recipe she provides gives a net carbcount of 7 grams.


If you look at the rules for Induction it says no grain. Oat bran is a
grain. If you look at why the rules are written the way they are it's
easy to take either stance -

1) Oat bran is excluded during Induction because one of the reasons the
carb ladder is ordered as it is is based on the odds of previously
unknown intolerances causing problems.

2) Oat bran is not excluded during Induction because one of the reasons
the carb ladder is ordered as it is is based on the carb counts and
glycemic indexes of the foods in question. The grains that are listed
are whole grains with the endosperm portion of refined grains not listed
at all. Bran is a refined grain product but it's the part that has near
zero starch count. It's all fiber with tiny traces of starch, protein,
vitamins and minerals. As long as you deduct fiber from your count
you'd need half a meal in bran to get up to a gram that counts.

Which of the two stances to take? Depends on how strict you want to be
and on how well you know the chances of intolerances of the type of bran
in question. In 13 years I've been low carbing I've never read of
anyone who had any problems with oats or oat bran. I've read plenty of
folks who have problems with wheat and corn and Dr Atkins reported
encountering folks who had problems with rice though I've never
encountered any of them.

I say go for using oat bran during Induction. Use at as an ingredient
for making crusts for fried foods. Still too early in the process to
use it in flax seed muffins ("Doobie muffins" named after their
inventor) but those ingredients appear soon in the carb ladder.
  #8  
Old December 19th, 2011, 08:28 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Gary[_4_]
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Posts: 2
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

On 2011-12-18 15:48:55 +0000, Doug Freyburger said:

pamela wrote:
Patricia Martin Steward wrote:
Tanya Möller wrote:


I am on Atkins, Induction and desperate for something else other than
grilled red meat and cheese or tuna salad.


I just cracked open my Atkins book for the first time in... gosh,
years... and at the back there are more than 100 pages of low-carb
recipes. There are MANY more things to eat than you've noted.


Dana Carpender in her latest "1001 Low Carb Recipes" gives a Salmon
Pattie recipe using canned salmon, oat bran, an egg, scallions sliced
and butter. The recipe she provides gives a net carbcount of 7 grams.


If you look at the rules for Induction it says no grain. Oat bran is a
grain. If you look at why the rules are written the way they are it's
easy to take either stance -

1) Oat bran is excluded during Induction because one of the reasons the
carb ladder is ordered as it is is based on the odds of previously
unknown intolerances causing problems.

2) Oat bran is not excluded during Induction because one of the reasons
the carb ladder is ordered as it is is based on the carb counts and
glycemic indexes of the foods in question. The grains that are listed
are whole grains with the endosperm portion of refined grains not listed
at all. Bran is a refined grain product but it's the part that has near
zero starch count. It's all fiber with tiny traces of starch, protein,
vitamins and minerals. As long as you deduct fiber from your count
you'd need half a meal in bran to get up to a gram that counts.

Which of the two stances to take? Depends on how strict you want to be
and on how well you know the chances of intolerances of the type of bran
in question. In 13 years I've been low carbing I've never read of
anyone who had any problems with oats or oat bran. I've read plenty of
folks who have problems with wheat and corn and Dr Atkins reported
encountering folks who had problems with rice though I've never
encountered any of them.

I say go for using oat bran during Induction. Use at as an ingredient
for making crusts for fried foods. Still too early in the process to
use it in flax seed muffins ("Doobie muffins" named after their
inventor) but those ingredients appear soon in the carb ladder.


Can I infer from your post that it's OK to use an oat bran bread?

  #9  
Old December 19th, 2011, 09:34 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Posts: 1,864
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

Gary wrote:
Doug Freyburger said:

I say go for using oat bran during Induction. Use at as an ingredient
for making crusts for fried foods. Still too early in the process to
use it in flax seed muffins ("Doobie muffins" named after their
inventor) but those ingredients appear soon in the carb ladder.


Can I infer from your post that it's OK to use an oat bran bread?


During Induction? You have a recipe that makes bread out of oat bran
and the only other indredients of the recipe are items on the
Induction list? Color me dubious but feel free to make my day by
posting a recipe for it.

Plenty of "whole wheat" breads use whole wheat at a level that's best
described as a spice or flavoring. They aren't made entirely of whole
grain with no refined grain ingredients at all. It would be even harder
to make bread entirely from bran than it is to make bread entirely from
whole grain.

During OWL, premaint or Maintenance? Some folks can have whole grains
during those phases some can't. The Atkins Nutritional Approach is a
process that determines what your body can and can't have for loss and
maintenance. It's not a scheduled list of menus that's one size fits
all. Certainly for a bread recipe more bran means less endosperm and
thus less total carb and lower glycemic load.

Lots of people can have high fiber (and thus high bran) whole grain
crisp breads during OWL and maintenance. Wasa Light Rye and Ryevita are
okay for some of us later in the process. Not everyone and not during
Induction. But if you have a recipe for a crisp bread made only from
oat bran that's a game changer.
  #10  
Old December 20th, 2011, 07:31 AM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Billy[_4_]
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Posts: 215
Default Substitute for breadcrumbs in NO CARB fishcakes and meatballs

In article ,
Doug Freyburger wrote:

Gary wrote:
Doug Freyburger said:

I say go for using oat bran during Induction. Use at as an ingredient
for making crusts for fried foods. Still too early in the process to
use it in flax seed muffins ("Doobie muffins" named after their
inventor) but those ingredients appear soon in the carb ladder.


Can I infer from your post that it's OK to use an oat bran bread?


During Induction? You have a recipe that makes bread out of oat bran
and the only other indredients of the recipe are items on the
Induction list? Color me dubious but feel free to make my day by
posting a recipe for it.

Plenty of "whole wheat" breads use whole wheat at a level that's best
described as a spice or flavoring. They aren't made entirely of whole
grain with no refined grain ingredients at all. It would be even harder
to make bread entirely from bran than it is to make bread entirely from
whole grain.

During OWL, premaint or Maintenance? Some folks can have whole grains
during those phases some can't. The Atkins Nutritional Approach is a
process that determines what your body can and can't have for loss and
maintenance. It's not a scheduled list of menus that's one size fits
all. Certainly for a bread recipe more bran means less endosperm and
thus less total carb and lower glycemic load.

Lots of people can have high fiber (and thus high bran) whole grain
crisp breads during OWL and maintenance. Wasa Light Rye and Ryevita are
okay for some of us later in the process. Not everyone and not during
Induction. But if you have a recipe for a crisp bread made only from
oat bran that's a game changer.


Id like to see that too.
--
- Billy

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none of the government programs targeted for elimination or severe cutbacks "appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse."
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