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liquid diets?? Medifast, Optifast, HMR, etc...



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 03:28 PM
RedRipeApple
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Default liquid diets?? Medifast, Optifast, HMR, etc...

I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make them work? Is
it the fact that they are all liquid? What is the magic here? I guess what I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr, optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein shakes like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a structured plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not? Thanks
Apple
  #2  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 04:25 PM
RedRipeApple
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Hi, I appreciate your post but that isn't what I asked - I am not asking if I
should go on a liquid diet, only if regular protein shakes would work the same
as a structured liquid fast... :-)
  #3  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 04:28 PM
RedRipeApple
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p.s. don't only 5-10 percent of us keep the weight off from ANY diet anyhow?
  #4  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 04:40 PM
Dally
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RedRipeApple wrote:

p.s. don't only 5-10 percent of us keep the weight off from ANY diet anyhow?


Funny you should ask that. No. That stat is wrong for lots of reasons.

Look at it this way: if you try 10 diets and fail at nine of them before
you finally work out all the kinks and change forever, then you've had a
90% failure rate at dieting. It only takes one success.

People debate whether liquid diets have any value in kick-starting a
weight loss regimen. I really don't think they do.

The people who used them have all the exact same struggles as the people
who don't use them, they just pay more money and have some harder
psychological issues associated with having to DEFEND a weight loss in
public rather than ACHIEVE a weight loss in anonymity. (Look at it this
way: if you eat at maintenance for a 250 pound person for a week then
you won't lose any weight that week if you weigh 250 pounds. But if you
weigh 200 pounds then you'd GAIN that week. It's the same week, the
same struggles to relearn how to eat... except now you have to struggle
in front of people who NOTICE that you've gained.)

Also, rapid weight loss has some deleterious affects. Take my word for it.

You've got to learn how to feed your body and exercise for the rest of
your life if you want to lose weight and keep it off. If you're not
willing to do that then don't bother messing around with a liquid diet.

Dally

  #5  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 04:44 PM
Dally
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RedRipeApple wrote:

I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make them work?


Low calories.

Is it the fact that they are all liquid?


No.

What is the magic here?


Enforced portion control. Removing the choice on how to feed yourself
from you. Reduced calories.


I guess what I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr, optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein shakes like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a structured plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not?


What you're buying with Meifast/Optifast is a nutrtionist designing the
nutrient make-up as well as medical supervision in case the nutritionist
is wrong. If you are so incapable of making good food choices that you
got fat, why do you suddenly think you're knowledgable enough as a
nutritionist now to design an unbalanced diet for yourself? Especially
WITHOUT doctor supervision.

No, the worst thing about liquid diets is that you're putting off
learning how to eat for the rest of your life. There's no advantage in
doing that, and especially no advantage in doing it dangerously.

With that said, I often enjoy a Myoplex Lite protein shake as part of my
planned meals/snacks. But it doesn't have enough fiber or
phytonutrients in it to be a mainstay.

Dally
244/171/165

  #6  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 05:06 PM
JMA
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RedRipeApple wrote:
I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make them

work? Is
it the fact that they are all liquid? What is the magic here?


There is no magic, it's calories in/calories out. Liquid diets are
VLCD (very low calorie diets) that are between 500-800 cal/day.

I guess what I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr,

optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein

shakes like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a

structured plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not? Thanks
Apple


Let me start by saying I did HMR so I am speaking from actual
experience.
- NO you can't do the same thing with all protein shakes if you plan on
having nutritional balance or VLCD. You need to be under a doctor's
supervision to go that low. There are a ton of things that can go
wrong. I was completely monitored with weekly checkups and monthly
bloodwork and I *still* had medical problems. There were things that
existed prior to the diet that I wasn't aware of and then there was
effects of the diet.
- You don't do a VLCD unless your BMI is 40+ or it is 30+ with some
compelling medical issue that requires you to lose weight quickly. I
was 40+ BMI to start and had been unsuccessful doing things the "old
fashioned" way for 25 years. For me, it was this or surgery.
- Liquid diets are not a quick fix. They require a lot of discipline
and dedication to the program and to *maintenance*. Going to the
classes helps you learn about how to eat right but until you are in the
maintenance phase, you don't actually *practice* it.
I've been successful at keeping the majority of my weight off so far,
but it was rather difficult. Fine, I had medical problems that added
to the difficulty, but once it was dealt with it still took a lot of
work on my part, and still does. There are people who were in my
program that gained everything back right away, people like me who have
kept the bulk of it off, and even people who have not gained anything
back, just like any old diet.

I'm always willing to discuss this freely in email. I don't post a lot
of specifics publicly because of privacy issues and a person who abuses
personal information by twisting facts and trying to use them as a
weapon.

Jenn

  #7  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 05:45 PM
Patricia Heil
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Default


"RedRipeApple" wrote in message
...
I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make them work?
Is
it the fact that they are all liquid? What is the magic here? I guess what
I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr,
optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein shakes
like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a structured
plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not? Thanks
Apple


They don't work. Not permanently. To be healthy and keep the weight off
permanently, you have to exercise and eat healthy.


  #8  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 05:47 PM
Patricia Heil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"RedRipeApple" wrote in message
...
Hi, I appreciate your post but that isn't what I asked - I am not asking
if I
should go on a liquid diet, only if regular protein shakes would work the
same
as a structured liquid fast... :-)


Yes -- BADLY.


  #9  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 05:58 PM
Beverly
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Ignoramus14916" wrote in message
...
On 03 Nov 2004 15:28:55 GMT, RedRipeApple wrote:
I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make them

work? Is
it the fact that they are all liquid? What is the magic here? I guess

what I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr,

optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein shakes

like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a structured

plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not? Thanks
Apple


They do not work very well.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=3360564

``Outcome analysis revealed that 25 percent of patients were unable to
adapt to this approach, dropping out within the first 3 weeks. Of the
patients remaining in the program, 68 percent lost considerable
weight, but did not reach their goal; of this group, recidivism was
extremely high, with only 5-10 percent maintaining weight loss after
18 months. Thirty-two percent of the patients successfully attained
goal weight; the holding rate of this group has been considerably
greater, with 30 percent of women and 58 percent of men maintaining
weight loss (within 10 lbs) for a minimum of 18 months.''

I would not call "only 5-10 percent maintaining weight loss after
18 months" to be working very well.

Diets, in general, do not work very well and liquid diets are not an
exception. Which is not to say that you should not be dieting, but it
helps to use hard data to make decisions like whether to spend a lot
of money on a liquid diet.

That said, if you drop some weight and keep it off, even if you do not
reach goal, you'd be better off than if you did not do that.

Numerous people -- the minority of dieters -- do lose weight on all
kinds of diets, low fat, low carb, low calorie, liquid diets, etc, and
keep it off. The key is finding the diet that fits your situation
best, and realize that dieting should not be temporary.

--
223/172.5/180


Why didn't you post the entire article? You left off the parts that suggest
the VLCD approach provides a reasonable success rate for achieving and
maintaining weight loss.

Here's the positive side from the website. Go to it and read the entire
article for yourself, Apple. There are good sides to this type of diet,
too. This type of diet probably has just a good success rate as anyother
diet as long as you stick with it and follow directionsg

Here's some of the positives from the article:
Complications of obesity i.e. hypertension, type II diabetes mellitus, and
hyperlipidemias were remarkably improved after weight loss. Complications of
the VLCD including cardiac abnormalities, were minimal. Our 8-year
experience strongly suggests that the VLCD approach using high quality
protein supplement and multi-disciplinary counselling provides a reasonable
success rate for achieving and maintaining weight loss in the morbidity
obese population.

PMID: 3360564 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Beverly


  #10  
Old November 3rd, 2004, 07:46 PM
JMA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Beverly wrote:
"Ignoramus14916" wrote in

message
...
On 03 Nov 2004 15:28:55 GMT, RedRipeApple

wrote:
I have another question. What is it about liquid diets that make

them
work? Is
it the fact that they are all liquid? What is the magic here? I

guess
what I
really want to know is: for those who have been on medifast, hmr,

optifast, etc
- do you think someone could do the same thing with all protein

shakes
like EAS
or ISOPURE or a combo of protein shakes as opposed to doing a

structured
plan
like medifast, optifast, etc? Why or why not? Thanks
Apple


They do not work very well.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=3360564

``Outcome analysis revealed that 25 percent of patients were unable

to
adapt to this approach, dropping out within the first 3 weeks. Of

the
patients remaining in the program, 68 percent lost considerable
weight, but did not reach their goal; of this group, recidivism was
extremely high, with only 5-10 percent maintaining weight loss

after
18 months. Thirty-two percent of the patients successfully attained
goal weight; the holding rate of this group has been considerably
greater, with 30 percent of women and 58 percent of men maintaining
weight loss (within 10 lbs) for a minimum of 18 months.''

I would not call "only 5-10 percent maintaining weight loss after
18 months" to be working very well.

Diets, in general, do not work very well and liquid diets are not

an
exception. Which is not to say that you should not be dieting, but

it
helps to use hard data to make decisions like whether to spend a

lot
of money on a liquid diet.

That said, if you drop some weight and keep it off, even if you do

not
reach goal, you'd be better off than if you did not do that.

Numerous people -- the minority of dieters -- do lose weight on all
kinds of diets, low fat, low carb, low calorie, liquid diets, etc,

and
keep it off. The key is finding the diet that fits your situation
best, and realize that dieting should not be temporary.

--
223/172.5/180


Why didn't you post the entire article? You left off the parts that

suggest
the VLCD approach provides a reasonable success rate for achieving

and
maintaining weight loss.


We know the answer to that question really, now. He makes a habit of
conveniently snipping text and taking information out of context to
support his POV, regardless of the facts - but then he calls me a liar
for making a .6 math error. Yes, someone definitely has trouble with
reality around here and it's not me.

If Bicker were to post, he'd shut his trap again but since he knows I
did HMR too, he has to slam it every chance he gets.

Here's the positive side from the website. Go to it and read the

entire
article for yourself, Apple. There are good sides to this type of

diet,
too. This type of diet probably has just a good success rate as

anyother
diet as long as you stick with it and follow directionsg

Here's some of the positives from the article:
Complications of obesity i.e. hypertension, type II diabetes

mellitus, and
hyperlipidemias were remarkably improved after weight loss.

Complications of
the VLCD including cardiac abnormalities, were minimal. Our 8-year
experience strongly suggests that the VLCD approach using high

quality
protein supplement and multi-disciplinary counselling provides a

reasonable
success rate for achieving and maintaining weight loss in the

morbidity
obese population.

PMID: 3360564 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Beverly


Thanks for bringing up the facts.

Jenn

 




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