Low carb and endurance running -- results of my experiment

On 2004-09-18, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Roger Zoul wrote:

:: Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in
:: the presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the
:: average couch potato.

Runners don't have problems eating at maintenance because they burn more
calories than the average couch potato?

PLEASE!

Well for whatever reason, none of the people in my running club are fat, and
none of them need low carb diets to stay in shape. The fact that their
running burns 3,000-10,000 calories a week might have *something* to do with
it, what do you think ?

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running club...

So ? Do you think that the average runner needs a special diet, low carb or
otherwise to avoid getting fat ?


No, I think that saying that there are no fat people in the running
club, does not prove that running works to keep people slim. Your
conclusion is based on selection bias.

That's an interesting conjecture. How is it based on "selection bias" ? Are
you saying that people in running clubs are equally slim regardless of
activity ? Having seen some of my teammates during peak shape versus a few
months post injury, I can assure you that this is not so.

I suppose you also believe that there are people out there running 30+ miles
per week who are fat, and that burning 3,000-10,000 calories does not help
people keep slim either. Keep telling yourself that -- sure, none of the people
in my running club were ever overweight, we all have "fast metabolisms" or
something.

I can tell you that I was overweight (210lb) before I was running (160 now),
and I'm not "lowcarbing". Perhaps the fact that I'm running 70 miles a week
has something to do with it, but who knows, maybe my metabolism is picking up
as I get older or something ?

Anyway, keep believing it -- delusion is a useful defensive mechanism, it's
hard to stick to the lowcarb religion without it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-18, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Roger Zoul wrote:

:: Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in
:: the presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the
:: average couch potato.

Runners don't have problems eating at maintenance because they burn more
calories than the average couch potato?

PLEASE!

Well for whatever reason, none of the people in my running club are fat, and
none of them need low carb diets to stay in shape. The fact that their
running burns 3,000-10,000 calories a week might have *something* to do with
it, what do you think ?

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running club...

So ? Do you think that the average runner needs a special diet, low carb or
otherwise to avoid getting fat ?


No, I think that saying that there are no fat people in the running
club, does not prove that running works to keep people slim. Your
conclusion is based on selection bias.

That's an interesting conjecture. How is it based on "selection bias" ? Are
you saying that people in running clubs are equally slim regardless of
activity ? Having seen some of my teammates during peak shape versus a few
months post injury, I can assure you that this is not so.

I suppose you also believe that there are people out there running 30+ miles
per week who are fat, and that burning 3,000-10,000 calories does not help
people keep slim either. Keep telling yourself that -- sure, none of the people
in my running club were ever overweight, we all have "fast metabolisms" or
something.

I can tell you that I was overweight (210lb) before I was running (160 now),
and I'm not "lowcarbing". Perhaps the fact that I'm running 70 miles a week
has something to do with it, but who knows, maybe my metabolism is picking up
as I get older or something ?

Anyway, keep believing it -- delusion is a useful defensive mechanism, it's
hard to stick to the lowcarb religion without it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-18, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Ignoramus474 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-17, Roger Zoul wrote:

:: Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in
:: the presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the
:: average couch potato.

Runners don't have problems eating at maintenance because they burn more
calories than the average couch potato?

PLEASE!

Well for whatever reason, none of the people in my running club are fat, and
none of them need low carb diets to stay in shape. The fact that their
running burns 3,000-10,000 calories a week might have *something* to do with
it, what do you think ?

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running club...

So ? Do you think that the average runner needs a special diet, low carb or
otherwise to avoid getting fat ?


No, I think that saying that there are no fat people in the running
club, does not prove that running works to keep people slim. Your
conclusion is based on selection bias.

That's an interesting conjecture. How is it based on "selection bias" ? Are
you saying that people in running clubs are equally slim regardless of
activity ? Having seen some of my teammates during peak shape versus a few
months post injury, I can assure you that this is not so.

I suppose you also believe that there are people out there running 30+ miles
per week who are fat, and that burning 3,000-10,000 calories does not help
people keep slim either. Keep telling yourself that -- sure, none of the people
in my running club were ever overweight, we all have "fast metabolisms" or
something.

I can tell you that I was overweight (210lb) before I was running (160 now),
and I'm not "lowcarbing". Perhaps the fact that I'm running 70 miles a week
has something to do with it, but who knows, maybe my metabolism is picking up
as I get older or something ?

Anyway, keep believing it -- delusion is a useful defensive mechanism, it's
hard to stick to the lowcarb religion without it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-18, David wrote:
wrote:

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running
club...

While it is true that you won't see many (or any) obese runners (they
generally have to start with walking until they lose enough weigh to be
able to run safely or even at all)... I've seen *plenty* of heavier
people in the local running groups and clinics here. Runners... at least

I'll chime in here -- it's correct that there is "selection bias" in my
running club, because there's a performance requirement. So the people who
are in the club are not 50lb overweight when they join. But the members are
for the most part recruited from a running clinic, and many people go into
this a tad heavy. Some people do actually make the grade when they're still
a little tubby (because the performance requirement, 60% WAVA, is attainable
by some who aren't super fit). Consistent with your observation, the heavier
people are nearly always in the beginner groups, and people in the beginner
groups tend to quickly move up to the more advanced groups. Everyone in the
advanced groups is pretty fit looking.

My fiancee started out in one of the beginner groups, and is now in one of
the advanced groups (and lost a lot of weight in the process), and I know
others that started out in the slower groups, so there does exist a pathway
from the "tubby beginners" group to the more advanced groups.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-18, David wrote:
wrote:

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running
club...

While it is true that you won't see many (or any) obese runners (they
generally have to start with walking until they lose enough weigh to be
able to run safely or even at all)... I've seen *plenty* of heavier
people in the local running groups and clinics here. Runners... at least

I'll chime in here -- it's correct that there is "selection bias" in my
running club, because there's a performance requirement. So the people who
are in the club are not 50lb overweight when they join. But the members are
for the most part recruited from a running clinic, and many people go into
this a tad heavy. Some people do actually make the grade when they're still
a little tubby (because the performance requirement, 60% WAVA, is attainable
by some who aren't super fit). Consistent with your observation, the heavier
people are nearly always in the beginner groups, and people in the beginner
groups tend to quickly move up to the more advanced groups. Everyone in the
advanced groups is pretty fit looking.

My fiancee started out in one of the beginner groups, and is now in one of
the advanced groups (and lost a lot of weight in the process), and I know
others that started out in the slower groups, so there does exist a pathway
from the "tubby beginners" group to the more advanced groups.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-18, David wrote:
wrote:

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running
club...

While it is true that you won't see many (or any) obese runners (they
generally have to start with walking until they lose enough weigh to be
able to run safely or even at all)... I've seen *plenty* of heavier
people in the local running groups and clinics here. Runners... at least

I'll chime in here -- it's correct that there is "selection bias" in my
running club, because there's a performance requirement. So the people who
are in the club are not 50lb overweight when they join. But the members are
for the most part recruited from a running clinic, and many people go into
this a tad heavy. Some people do actually make the grade when they're still
a little tubby (because the performance requirement, 60% WAVA, is attainable
by some who aren't super fit). Consistent with your observation, the heavier
people are nearly always in the beginner groups, and people in the beginner
groups tend to quickly move up to the more advanced groups. Everyone in the
advanced groups is pretty fit looking.

My fiancee started out in one of the beginner groups, and is now in one of
the advanced groups (and lost a lot of weight in the process), and I know
others that started out in the slower groups, so there does exist a pathway
from the "tubby beginners" group to the more advanced groups.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Ignoramus474" wrote in message
...
If your improvements come at a greater rate than before, after making
a change, then, you could *hypothesize* that the greater rate of
improvement is due to that change.

Yes, you can hypothosize just as I did that it was the sun that made me
faster and not the hard work but it has little science or reality value.

-DF

"Ignoramus474" wrote in message
...
If your improvements come at a greater rate than before, after making
a change, then, you could *hypothesize* that the greater rate of
improvement is due to that change.

Yes, you can hypothosize just as I did that it was the sun that made me
faster and not the hard work but it has little science or reality value.

-DF

"Ignoramus474" wrote in message
...
If your improvements come at a greater rate than before, after making
a change, then, you could *hypothesize* that the greater rate of
improvement is due to that change.

Yes, you can hypothosize just as I did that it was the sun that made me
faster and not the hard work but it has little science or reality value.

-DF

wrote:

I highly doubt that fat people would want to belong to a running
club...

How wrong you are!! I'm the membership owner for my club(about 500) and
a 15 year member and we have many people that started heavy and many
that are still heavy. The majority of new runners are out of shape
either physically or aerobically. They join to make a commitment and
seek help. The club has group runs aimed for runners of all paces. Did
you really think that only svelte people join running clubs? Scottie,
beam him up.

Like Donovan's club we also have a selection process - $15 for an
individual or $20 for a family and it gets you race discounts and my
monthly titillating newsletter. It's how fast you write the check that
counts.

I do organize some runs that have strength/speed requirements but not
limited to club members. It's for those that want to take their running
to another level. As a side bar, I can assure you no one in this group
would even entertain LC. Without 60-70% coming from carbs they would
never recover and get stronger and likely end up in a fetal position on
one of my runs.

-DF