What is wrong with my diet?

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:22:22 +0900, Doug Lerner
wrote:

No - not the service. I don't think there are many people in the service my
weight.

I came here to Tokyo when I was a grad student to work on a world's fair
computer graphics project and I haven't gone home yet.

That will be 22 years... tomorrow!

doug@hates packing

p.s. Yes - people are noticeably much thinner here on the average than in
the U.S.!

This makes me curious about something: do you eat a Japanese diet, or
find American food? If you eat as the Japanese do, why do you think
you're heavier than they are in general? Do you think a genetic
difference plays a part? Just being inquisitive here -- ignore if you
wish :-).


Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

On 10/31/05 8:47 AM, in article ,
"Chris Braun" wrote:

Exactly! I don't eat it because I'm worried about fat per se, but
because I'm trying to control the calories I consume. And, while it
isn't as good as regular cheese, I like it, and it goes well with
burgers and such.

I don't think the Japanese eat much cheese of any sort, do they?

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

You might be thinking of Chinese. I hear they dislike cheese. But Japanese
people like it a lot. There are many less varieties to choose from here
though, unless you go to an upscale store. And no fat free cheese to choose
from at all, unfortunately.

For breakfast I usually have 200 gm of cottage cheese and two poached eggs.
374 calories total. If they had fat-free cottage cheese here (or even
low-fat cottage cheese) I could have the same amount and about the same
satisfaction and save almost 100 calories off of that!

doug

On 10/31/05 8:54 AM, in article ,
"Chris Braun" wrote:


p.s. Yes - people are noticeably much thinner here on the average than in
the U.S.!

This makes me curious about something: do you eat a Japanese diet, or
find American food? If you eat as the Japanese do, why do you think
you're heavier than they are in general? Do you think a genetic
difference plays a part? Just being inquisitive here -- ignore if you
wish :-).

There are many points here. As usual, there is no one simple answer:

* When I first moved to Japan everybody was thin. I basically never saw a
fat person. These days things have changed. More and more Japanese are
eating more fatty and fast foods and you do see overweight people every day.
The average body size is still much thinner than in the U.S., but it's not
unusual to see overweight people anymore. There is a greater consciousness
of calories now and I see a lot of movement towards "returning to low-fat,
low-calorie basics".

* Japanese food itself is largely very low-fat. It is mostly rice based with
smaller protein portions. I do eat a mix of foods though, not just Japanese
food.

* My Japanese friends who grew up on just Japanese foods and are SATISFIED
by eating just Japanese foods are all slim and fit.

* I don't think genetics has to do with it. I think it is strictly
upbringing and what you are used to. I think westerners who have been
inundated with fatty, sugary foods since birth are not really *satisfied*
unless we get some of that kind of food. Japanese people who are brought up
with rice crackers for treats actually LOVE those kinds of things and find
them delicious and satisfying. They were just lucky to be brought up that
way. I'm not saying you can't retrain yourself, but I think it is difficult.

doug

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:09:01 +0900, Doug Lerner
wrote:




On 10/31/05 8:54 AM, in article ,
"Chris Braun" wrote:


p.s. Yes - people are noticeably much thinner here on the average than in
the U.S.!

This makes me curious about something: do you eat a Japanese diet, or
find American food? If you eat as the Japanese do, why do you think
you're heavier than they are in general? Do you think a genetic
difference plays a part? Just being inquisitive here -- ignore if you
wish :-).

There are many points here. As usual, there is no one simple answer:

* When I first moved to Japan everybody was thin. I basically never saw a
fat person. These days things have changed. More and more Japanese are
eating more fatty and fast foods and you do see overweight people every day.
The average body size is still much thinner than in the U.S., but it's not
unusual to see overweight people anymore. There is a greater consciousness
of calories now and I see a lot of movement towards "returning to low-fat,
low-calorie basics".

* Japanese food itself is largely very low-fat. It is mostly rice based with
smaller protein portions. I do eat a mix of foods though, not just Japanese
food.

* My Japanese friends who grew up on just Japanese foods and are SATISFIED
by eating just Japanese foods are all slim and fit.

* I don't think genetics has to do with it. I think it is strictly
upbringing and what you are used to. I think westerners who have been
inundated with fatty, sugary foods since birth are not really *satisfied*
unless we get some of that kind of food. Japanese people who are brought up
with rice crackers for treats actually LOVE those kinds of things and find
them delicious and satisfying. They were just lucky to be brought up that
way. I'm not saying you can't retrain yourself, but I think it is difficult.

doug

Interesting stuff, Doug, and all very reasonable-sounding. Thanks for
taking the time to reply!

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

In article . net,
Nunya B. wrote:

"Carol Frilegh" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Nunya B. wrote:

here and there, etc. I simply use caution and moderation.

I'm getting really tired of the low fat dieters being belittled in this
group.

Dssing a diet is not belittling individuals.

Just because it's not your diet doesn't mean you should dis it. That's
another problem around here with people (not necessarily you) referring to
everything that doesn't fall in their little world view as bull****.
There's just a bit too much intolerance for other people's WOE for a general
group like this.

When someone is doing something dangerous or unhealthy, yes, it's a good
thing to speak up. Low fat dieting is neither of those. If anyone dissed
your SCD or low carb you'd be all over them.

On the other hand, intelligent poeple are not obligated to support a
diet they don't agree with and valid criticisms should not be taken as
personal offence. The following are are the opinions of various others.
(For my part be my guest and follow any diet you like and I will follow
mine as I have for nearly six years and feel quite comfortable about
expressing my preferences as well )

My references are from Googling, "Low Fat Diet. They represent various
opinions. Anyone can counter said opinions by Googling "benefits of a
Low fat Diet," then we can all live and learn.

******************

Some people have gone overboard with the low fat concept, especially
women watching their weight.* Fat calories slow the flood of
carbohydrates into the blood, which helps to eliminate "sugar highs" as
well as the corresponding crash after the glucose is burned off. *
Athletes improve their performance and diabetics become healthier when
they switch to a diet higher in certain kinds of fat and protein and
lower in calories.*In addition, there are certain fatty acids which we
require for optimal health which can only be found in certain foods.*
And some researchers believe that people with type-O blood may be more
likely than others to thrive on a diet rich in protein and fat and low
in grains and dairy products because they trace their genes back to
hunter-gatherer societies.

Please note that I am NOT talking about a high-protein "Atkins" type
of diet in this article! Instead, I'm concerned about people who are
nearly eliminating all fat and protein from their diet, so that they
are eating 90% carbohydrates.

****
if a person takes in more calories - whether in the form of fats or
carbohydrates - than he or she burns up, that person becomes obese.
Thus, on one hand, eating lots of low fat food will absolutely make you
fat; on the other hand, eating lots of low carb food will also do the
same. Dr. Atkins' claim that a person on his diet does not need to
count calories (only grams of carbohydrates) is not strictly correct.
Sponsored Links
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Doctor recommended.www.ulosefast.com/
Quickly Lower CholesterolAll Natural Alternative Remedy Safely Drop 30
points in 30 Days.www.cholestasys.com
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collect donationswww.heartandstroke.ca/heartmonth
(That his statement often appears to be true is probably because
eating fat quenches the appetite while carbohydrates - as we have seen
- can stimulate the appetite, so a diet high in fat can result in fewer
calories consumed overall. But the fact remains - if you eat more
calories than you burn up, you gain weight.)

*******

A low-fat diet may be actively harmful. In the late Eighties, David
Jacobs, from the University of Minnesota, did a study in Japan on the
effects of cholesterol and, interestingly, found a link between low
blood cholesterol levels and an increase in non-heart disease related
deaths. He reported to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute,
which hosted the American Heart Association conference in 1990. At that
conference the results of 19 studies from around the world on the links
between cholesterol levels and disease were pooled. Taubes writes: "The
data were consistent. When investigators tracked all deaths instead of
just heart disease, the cholesterol curves were U-shaped for men (both
high and low increased the risk) and flat for women." He adds: "As for
women, if anything, the higher their cholesterol the longer they
lived."

Meanwhile, the link between low-fat diets and weight loss hasn't fared
well either. The ongoing Women's Health Initiative - a $100m study on
women's health - enrolled 50,000 women in a randomized trial, putting
half of them on a draconian diet that provided only 20 per cent of
their calories from fat.

*********
So popular did the low-fat craze become that in 1992 the U.S.
Department of Agriculture introduced its much-vaunted food pyramid
guidelines that recommended Americans lay off the fat and load up on
grains and cereals, which are carbohydrates.

But there was a problem. During the 1990s, despite the new guidelines
and the glut of low-fat and fat-free products available, Americans got
even fatter. While most experts agree that Americans' increasingly
sedentary lifestyle and fondness for fast food contributed to the
nation's growing girth, others postulate that the low-fat label misled
consumers into believing that such products contained fewer calories,
causing them to eat even more.

"The low-fat message was interpreted as if you had a product that was
lower in fat it was good for you without thinking of calories," says
Professor Marion Nestle of New York University's Department of
Nutrition, Food Studies & Public Health. "The best example is the
Snackwell phenomenon: Snackwell cookies were advertised as low-fat
cookies but they had almost the same number of calories." Nutritionists
also note that in order to make products low-fat, companies had to
replace the fat with something else -- usually carbohydrates.

*********
Not all fats are bad. Diets high in monounsaturated fats or omega-3
fatty acids are associated with lower risks of heart disease and other
health problems. The body needs certain types of fat to function. An
ultra-low-fat diet (providing less than 10% of calories from fat) may
cause a deficiency of essential fatty acids (EFAs), which are essential
for the structure and function of the body¹s cell membranes and many
other other important functions. Low-fat diets, especially when most
animal products are avoided, may lack good sources of vitamins E and
B12 and zinc. With too little fat in the diet, the body may not
properly absorb fat-soluble nutrients, such as vitamin A, vitamin D,
vitamin E, and vitamin K, and carotenoids, which are essential for the
health of the eyes, skin, immune system, bones and teeth.

A low-fat diet is usually high in carbohydrates.

--
Diva
*****
The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman

"Carol Frilegh" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Nunya B. wrote:

"Carol Frilegh" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Nunya B. wrote:

here and there, etc. I simply use caution and moderation.

I'm getting really tired of the low fat dieters being belittled in
this
group.

Dssing a diet is not belittling individuals.

Just because it's not your diet doesn't mean you should dis it. That's
another problem around here with people (not necessarily you) referring
to
everything that doesn't fall in their little world view as bull****.
There's just a bit too much intolerance for other people's WOE for a
general
group like this.

When someone is doing something dangerous or unhealthy, yes, it's a good
thing to speak up. Low fat dieting is neither of those. If anyone
dissed
your SCD or low carb you'd be all over them.

On the other hand, intelligent poeple are not obligated to support a
diet they don't agree with and valid criticisms should not be taken as
personal offence. The following are are the opinions of various others.
(For my part be my guest and follow any diet you like and I will follow
mine as I have for nearly six years and feel quite comfortable about
expressing my preferences as well )

No one told you to support it, but your need to malign it says volumes.

My references are from Googling, "Low Fat Diet. They represent various
opinions. Anyone can counter said opinions by Googling "benefits of a
Low fat Diet," then we can all live and learn.

******************

Please note that I am NOT talking about a high-protein "Atkins" type
of diet in this article! Instead, I'm concerned about people who are
nearly eliminating all fat and protein from their diet, so that they
are eating 90% carbohydrates.

Last time I checked, no one was advocating a 10% fat/protein 90% carb diet.
Nor has anyone said that all fat is bad and that there are no good fats.
There are sensible low fat diets out there, you just choose not to see it
and malign them all with one sweep.

****
if a person takes in more calories - whether in the form of fats or
carbohydrates - than he or she burns up, that person becomes obese.
Thus, on one hand, eating lots of low fat food will absolutely make you
fat; on the other hand, eating lots of low carb food will also do the
same. Dr. Atkins' claim that a person on his diet does not need to
count calories (only grams of carbohydrates) is not strictly correct.
Sponsored Links
Lose 30 lbs in 30 daysLose weight quickly, safely and effectively.
Doctor recommended.www.ulosefast.com/
Quickly Lower CholesterolAll Natural Alternative Remedy Safely Drop 30
points in 30 Days.www.cholestasys.com
Heart Disease DietHeart Month is coming up soon! Volunteer to help
collect donationswww.heartandstroke.ca/heartmonth
(That his statement often appears to be true is probably because
eating fat quenches the appetite while carbohydrates - as we have seen
- can stimulate the appetite, so a diet high in fat can result in fewer
calories consumed overall. But the fact remains - if you eat more
calories than you burn up, you gain weight.)

*******

This again is not relevant except to the idiot dieter. Most people in this
group who have expressed a preference for low fat eating have also said they
do it so they can eat more while limiting overall calories.


A low-fat diet may be actively harmful. In the late Eighties, David
Jacobs, from the University of Minnesota, did a study in Japan on the
effects of cholesterol and, interestingly, found a link between low
blood cholesterol levels and an increase in non-heart disease related
deaths. He reported to the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute,
which hosted the American Heart Association conference in 1990. At that
conference the results of 19 studies from around the world on the links
between cholesterol levels and disease were pooled. Taubes writes: "The
data were consistent. When investigators tracked all deaths instead of
just heart disease, the cholesterol curves were U-shaped for men (both
high and low increased the risk) and flat for women." He adds: "As for
women, if anything, the higher their cholesterol the longer they
lived."

Meanwhile, the link between low-fat diets and weight loss hasn't fared
well either. The ongoing Women's Health Initiative - a $100m study on
women's health - enrolled 50,000 women in a randomized trial, putting
half of them on a draconian diet that provided only 20 per cent of
their calories from fat.

*********

And there are other studies that show low fat dieting to be successful for
long term weight loss and maintenance.

So popular did the low-fat craze become that in 1992 the U.S.
Department of Agriculture introduced its much-vaunted food pyramid
guidelines that recommended Americans lay off the fat and load up on
grains and cereals, which are carbohydrates.

But there was a problem. During the 1990s, despite the new guidelines
and the glut of low-fat and fat-free products available, Americans got
even fatter. While most experts agree that Americans' increasingly
sedentary lifestyle and fondness for fast food contributed to the
nation's growing girth, others postulate that the low-fat label misled
consumers into believing that such products contained fewer calories,
causing them to eat even more.

"The low-fat message was interpreted as if you had a product that was
lower in fat it was good for you without thinking of calories," says
Professor Marion Nestle of New York University's Department of
Nutrition, Food Studies & Public Health. "The best example is the
Snackwell phenomenon: Snackwell cookies were advertised as low-fat
cookies but they had almost the same number of calories." Nutritionists
also note that in order to make products low-fat, companies had to
replace the fat with something else -- usually carbohydrates.

*********

See above problem with the fact that most intelligent dieters can do a low
fat diet while counting calories.

Not all fats are bad. Diets high in monounsaturated fats or omega-3
fatty acids are associated with lower risks of heart disease and other
health problems. The body needs certain types of fat to function. An
ultra-low-fat diet (providing less than 10% of calories from fat) may
cause a deficiency of essential fatty acids (EFAs), which are essential
for the structure and function of the body¹s cell membranes and many
other other important functions. Low-fat diets, especially when most
animal products are avoided, may lack good sources of vitamins E and
B12 and zinc. With too little fat in the diet, the body may not
properly absorb fat-soluble nutrients, such as vitamin A, vitamin D,
vitamin E, and vitamin K, and carotenoids, which are essential for the
health of the eyes, skin, immune system, bones and teeth.

A low-fat diet is usually high in carbohydrates.

No one has said that all fats are bad so I don't know why you keep pounding
that point. No one has disagreed with you. Yes, most low fat diets are
higher in carbohydrates than fat, thus the term "Low Fat" and just as there
are good fats, there are good carbs. I get most of my carbs from fruits,
vegetables, whole grains like oats, soy, and fat free dairy. Nothing wrong
with that. Not from my POV and not from Weight Watchers or any number of
other successful programs.

BTW, Weight Watchers does require two servings of healthy oils/fats each
day, in addition to 5 fruits/veggies, 2-3 dairy, and 6 glasses of water.
It's still a generally low fat diet since the points favor calories from
fiber rather than fat.
--
the volleyballchick

Beverly wrote:
I certainly don't follow a low-fat diet but still use many low-fat/fat-free
products as I like to cut calories where I can. I've also found that many
of the low-fat dairy products contain a little more calcium than the
full-fat versions and that's important to me.


Mention throwing in a bit of fatfree cheese in an omelotte and we get a
rant of threads against lowfat eating! ;-) I would agree that in some
regards the lowfat rage is passe, but thats because people thought they
could overeat all those 'lowfat' foods (Entemanns 'fatfree' baked
goodies comes to mind!)No stupids(!) its still the calories!! Duh! And
so many more people began to believe lowfat meant nofat and thus
deprived their bodies of a very necessary nutrient (dull fallingout
hair, dry skin, no energy etc) and we ended up becoming fatter not
healthier. Evolving ahead, we now know there are good carbs, and there
are good fats too. Surely stayaway from the saturated fats by using
lowfat products (ah variety!) and increase your good fats (flax, hemp,
nuts, coldwater fish etc.) A good read, especially about what essential
fatty acids (EFA's) do in our body:
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=33


joanne

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:47:35 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:


Exactly! I don't eat it because I'm worried about fat per se, but
because I'm trying to control the calories I consume. And, while it
isn't as good as regular cheese, I like it, and it goes well with
burgers and such.

Here in the UK I'm not aware of any truly fat free cheese other than 1
or 2 brands of cottage cheese, and Quark. I sometimes eat low fat
cheese slices - we have more than one brand of these, and they tend to
be around 40 calories a slice. I just looked at the pack I have in
the fridge and it has 2 grams of fat per 40 calorie slice. Are the
slices you have with your poached eggs zero fat, Chris?

janice

In article om,
joanne wrote:

Beverly wrote:
I certainly don't follow a low-fat diet but still use many low-fat/fat-free
products as I like to cut calories where I can. I've also found that many
of the low-fat dairy products contain a little more calcium than the
full-fat versions and that's important to me.


Mention throwing in a bit of fatfree cheese in an omelotte and we get a
rant of threads against lowfat eating! ;-)

Is that what prompted this thread?

I don't think so. And I lean to Beverly's rationale.

Personally, I use lots of dry curd cottage cheese which is very low in
fat and also Swiss Cheese which is high in fat. I eat fish and poultry
but also red meat (less often) if I'm at Whole Foods for a salad, I
always have some of their full bodied Thai Caesar dressing on it.

If I want an indulgent dessert once every five weeks, it is a full fat
wedge of Carole's Cheescake, a popular Toronto boutique brand.

On the other hand, yesterday I made an omelette with one egg and
several extra egg whites. I liked the texture and flavor better than an
omelet with several whole eggs.

I would say i use a pat of butter every day and one to two tablespoons
of olive oil. I also like nuts which are high in fat, but it's valuable
fat. On the other hand I consume one to two cups of salad greens every
day and a *minimum* of three vegetables and three pieces of fruit.

My "bugaboo" happens to be that "healthy" whole grain or any grain that
the Agricultural Lobby and Food Pyramid advocates and refined sugar.

--
Diva
******
There is no substitute for the right food

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:15:04 +0000, (janice) wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:47:35 GMT, Chris Braun
wrote:


Exactly! I don't eat it because I'm worried about fat per se, but
because I'm trying to control the calories I consume. And, while it
isn't as good as regular cheese, I like it, and it goes well with
burgers and such.

Here in the UK I'm not aware of any truly fat free cheese other than 1
or 2 brands of cottage cheese, and Quark. I sometimes eat low fat
cheese slices - we have more than one brand of these, and they tend to
be around 40 calories a slice. I just looked at the pack I have in
the fridge and it has 2 grams of fat per 40 calorie slice. Are the
slices you have with your poached eggs zero fat, Chris?

janice

Yes. There are two common brands of f/f cheese slices here in the US,
Kraft & Bordens. The data for the two brands is the same; each slice
has 30 calories, 0g fat, 2g carbs, 5g protein. I think I read
somewhere that one of the brands has a small amount of fat -- under
the level that would require them to list it -- but I don't know which
one. Anyway, I don't worry about it. It's mainly the 30 calories
part that I like, and the 5g of protein. And the saturated fat in
cheese is not one of the "good fats" that we all need in our diet.

Chris
262/130s/130s
started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004