Brining

Ignoramus29069 wrote:

I brined a 4.5 lbs beef according to the recipe below. The smell of
the brining liquid was quite delicious. The beef is some "roast" for
$2.65 per lbs, so the meat is probably not very tender to begin
with. Prior to brining, I punctured the meat in a few places, and then
put the meat and brine in a ziploc bag, squeezing out the air.

Don't puncture it in the future, Ig. That makes the brining go
unevenly and provides an escape route for juices. Otherwise, you get
an "A"

I plan on brining it in the fridge for 2-3 days, and then want to
grill it on a rotisserie, until the meat inside reaches proper
temperature, according to my meat thermometer.

Is that a good plan?

I'd do it for the lower end of that timetable, maybe even cut it back
to 1 1/2 days because of the holes. Flavor of the meat should be
enhanced. Overbrining will make it taste salty.

An interesting thing you can do is make a "pellicle." Take it out of
the brine when ready and put it on a rack in the fridge, uncovered,
for a day. It'll form a skin, a pellicle, that does marvelous things
for flavor, moistness and tenderness. Even more than just brining.
Happy meat.

Pastorio


The brining post is attached below for reference.

i
223/172/180

From: "Bob (this one)"
Lines: 242

DigitalVinyl wrote:


"Bear" wrote:
=20

If your chicken is rubbery, you're overcooking it. Cut back on the time=

a

little.


Exactly right.

Chicken is fully cooked and safe to eat at 150F. The texture isn't=20
something most people would like. That's why we cook it more, to firm=20
up the protein. But if chicken is tough, it has been way overcooked=20
with a dry-cook method. That toughens and hardens the protein. Cooking=20
chicken in a wet-cook method like simmering or boiling won't toughen=20
it so much as make it fibrous and, curiously, make it dry to the bite.

Also brine it over night. Just put it into very salty water, like

seawater, and refrigerate it overnight. Rinse it off, put any spices or=


herbs you like to add, and grill it. It may be a little pink inside but=


that's from the brining process. Don't overcook it.

=20
What does the brining do? other than possibly impart some saltiness?


Funny you should bring it up. Below is part of a column I wrote a=20
while back about the subject. People kept asking why our meats in the=20
restaurants were more moist and tender than what they did at home. We=20
talked about it on my radio program and even printed up fliers for=20
people to take home to do their own brining. Lots of people hunt in=20
this area and when they saw what brining did to their game meats and=20
birds, it's become a very popular topic, still after these years.

Below that first column is one about chicken that's fully cooked and=20
still pink at the bone. This ain't your father's chicken anymore.

First, brining.

begin quote
Brining for Beginners
This is one of those =93gotta have faith=94 pieces. I want you to sink=20
meats, birds and seafoods in some salty water so they'll cook faster,=20
be better tasting, more tender and more juicy. Yeah, I know. Sounds=20
absurd. But it really works and now it's all the thing.
Time was when there were no refrigerators. Meat spoils quickly. All=20
kinds of meats - four-legged, winged and the ones with gills. What to=20
do? Well, there were several choices for storage. Put it under cold=20
water. Store it hanging in a cold root cellar or springhouse. You=20
could hang the meat over a slow, smoky fire. Anything else?
The other major way to store meat was to pickle it; to brine it. Sink=20
it in a flavored brine and in fairly short order, you have a piece of=20
meat that won't spoil any time soon. We still have some being produced=20
like that nowadays. Corned beef. Pastrami. Many different kinds of=20
hams. You know them.
That's the new-old method, but with some modern changes. Brining the=20
meats. Here's what happens. The salt and sugar act to draw moisture=20
out of the meats. Then a kind of balance is struck where no more=20
juices come out of the meat. Then, in a funny reversal, the brine is=20
taken up by the meat bringing moisture and flavoring into the meat. It=20
makes the meat plumper and juicier. It makes it more forgiving in=20
cooking. It makes your dinner a bit more tender. What's to not like?
We aren't going to pickle them, just soak them in a light brine=20
solution. Stay with me here. We aren't making the meats taste salty,=20
just better. And cook more quickly.
Poultry, pork, lamb, beef and game meats can all be brined and I=20
guarantee they'll be tastier, juicier and more tender than without=20
brining. Brining will also shorten cooking times. Cook as you always=20
do, just check on the progress of the meats a bit earlier and more=20
often than usual until you get the sense of it. And this isn't just=20
for special occasions. Every time you cook meats, they can benefit=20
from this approach. Discard the brines after using once.
BASIC MEAT BRINE
This much brine will take care of a 3 or 4 pound piece of pork loin,=20
a chicken (or chicken pieces), a 3 or 4 pound beef, lamb or veal=20
roast. How long to leave the meats in the brine? Depends. For poultry,=20
at least 24 hours. Up to about 36 hours. Roasts benefit from 3 days or=20
more. Since I first started doing this, I've evolved my recipe. This=20
is the one I'm working with now.
1 quart water
1/4 cup salt
2 tablespoons sugar
1/2 tablespoon black pepper
1 teaspoon fresh thyme leaves
2 teaspoons fresh oregano leaves
4 or 5 bay leaves, crumbled
4 cloves garlic, smashed
2 tablespoons vinegar
Heat the water and add the remaining ingredients. Bring to a low=20
simmer, stir a few times and remove from the heat. Let cool.
That's the brine. How to use it? One very easy way is a gallon=20
freezer bag. Put the meat in the bag and pour the cooled brine over=20
it. Squeeze out much of the air, put the bag in a container and=20
refrigerate. Just in case of leaks.
Variations: Well, for the basic brine, you can add or subtract any=20
flavorings you want. The amounts of water, salt and sugar should=20
remain fairly constant, but the other ingredients are variable.
For duck, goose and other oily birds, add 2 tablespoons ground=20
ginger, a cup of soy sauce and 1/4 cup orange juice concentrate. Stick=20
the duck all over with a fork and brine for 3 or 4 days. Roast in a=20
400 oven for about an hour.
Chicken pieces benefit from the juice of a lemon and a tablespoon of=20
rubbed sage added to the brine.
BRINED PORK AND VEAL CHOPS
These chops will be rosy inside like a good cured ham and very=20
tender. Don't try to cook the wonderful pink color out, you'll ruin them.=

1/ 2 cup brown sugar
1/4 cup salt
10 black peppercorns
5 bay leaves
2 tablespoons mixed dried herbs (rosemary, oregano, thyme, and sage)
1 quart hot water
3 quarts ice water
12 chops, 1 inch thick
olive oil or cooking spray
Put sugar and salt in a large nonreactive container - plastic, glass=20
or stainless steel. Add the hot water and stir to dissolve. Add other=20
seasonings and let sit for a few minutes to rehydrate herbs. Stir in=20
the ice water. Submerge the pork chops in the brine. Cover the=20
container and refrigerate for 24 hours or more. Or use the freezer bag=20
technique. To cook, remove the chops from the brine, pat dry and=20
lightly brush or spray with oil. Grill, broil or pan-fry. Figure 7 to=20
9 minutes per side.
And don't forget that turkey or the venison leg. Got a really big=20
bucket? Enjoy very much.
end quote

Now let's look at why chicken seems to be still pink at the bone even=20
when thermometers say it's cooked.

begin quote
It's the =93new=94 chicken
I've cooked thousands of pieces of chicken over the years. Probably=20
hundreds of thousands. Never any problems. But in the last few=20
years, I kept getting them back in the various restaurants because=20
there was pink at the bones. It looked like it wasn't fully cooked.
I checked oven temperatures and oil temperatures in our deep fryers.=20
I checked the thermometers we were using to check the ovens and oil.=20
Everything was right. Why were we getting chicken with redness=20
around the bones? We were having to fry chicken until it was dark=20
brown and just beginning to get that burned taste before people would=20
accept it.
It was dry and terribly overcooked. Didn't look good and didn't=20
taste good. Back to the good old days for a second. My grandmother=20
used to keep chickens. Well, she kept hens and one rooster. The hens=20
were for eggs, primarily. When my grandmother wanted chicken, one of=20
the hens went into the pot. They were likely a year or so old when=20
she roasted them or made her wonderful stew or cut them up to fry.
Never any redness at the bone. The chicken was moist, skin crisp and=20
it was tasty with the seasonings she used. Same sort of thing with=20
the stews. Big pieces of chicken falling off the bone. What's the=20
difference?
A bit of science and a little technology for a second here. It used=20
to be, not too many years ago, that chickens in the stores were about=20
12 weeks old and weighed maybe three pounds, three ounces at=20
slaughter. Their bones were fully formed and calcified.
Today, because of advances in nutritional knowledge and antibiotics,=20
chickens can be slaughtered at 6 weeks at that same weight. Their=20
younger bones aren't fully calcified. That means that back then, the=20
bones were harder than they are today.
As long as that older chicken wasn't frozen, the bones were solid.=20
Freezing makes them porous. And youth means they're porous. The color=20
comes from the marrow leaking through the bone when cooking the birds.
Well, I didn't know all this and was getting customer complaints. I=20
needed solutions. It didn't seem to be a problem with turkey, so I=20
tried what I do with them. Nope. Still got redness.
I talked to a person from one of the poultry packers who told me I=20
had to cook the chicken to 185F in the thigh in a 350F oven. And that=20
would get rid of that red. I tried it and it didn't. It just dried=20
out the chicken and turned it a not very pretty dark brown.
Tried other things. Brined it. That improved it in many ways, but=20
still had the red. Salted it (koshered it). Nope. Even tried=20
blanching it (not sure why. Just science in action, I guess.). Nope.=20
Poached it (yuck) but still had red. I never found a solution.=20
Still got chicken with redness at the bone.
I knew that it would be perfectly safe if I cooked it to more than=20
155F at the bone. So I tried the whole thing backward - cooked it to=20
160 (coward) in a 325F convection oven. Roast it to that temp and see=20
what would happen. It was golden brown like I remember chicken=20
looking, the skin was just beginning to crisp and the leg moved easily.
I looked inside the cavity. The juices looked clear, another sign of=20
doneness. I cut the leg off. Blood. I tipped the chicken up to pour=20
the juices out of the cavity. It was - mostly - clear. There was a=20
bit of darkness in the juice. I knew the science would say that it=20
was safe because of the extent of the reduction of salmonella and=20
other critters, given the temperature reached.
I tried the meat. It was wonderful. Moist. Flavorful. Amazingly=20
tender. But it was red at the bone and the juices were slightly=20
tinged with red. At first, I was reluctant to eat any of it because=20
of what I =93knew.=94 My eyes told me I was eating raw chicken and my=20
head knows that raw chicken is dangerous.
I knew I couldn't offer that to a consuming public and expect them to=20
accept it. I came to the conclusion that I couldn't solve the problem=20
and all that was left was to simply overcook chicken to get consumer=20
acceptance.
This discussion came up on a professional chefs mailing list I=20
subscribe to on the internet when someone else brought up the problem=20
he was having with red chicken. I explained what I did to try to=20
solve the problem and finally conceded that I just couldn't seem to=20
come to a satisfactory answer.
I got a note addressed to me from O. Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D. who is=20
associated with the Hospitality Institute of Technology and=20
Management. Their slogan is =93One worldwide uniform set of retail food =

safety guidelines=94 and this is his area of expertise. In the=20
professional foodservice community, he's considered a very good source=20
of scientific information.
Dr. Snyder wrote, =93You have done a great job of trying to find a=20
solution. But there is no solution that I can find to this problem=20
except to teach the consumer to eat bloody chicken. I can guarantee=20
if the area around the bone gets to 150F for about a minute as=20
measured with a tip sensitive thermocouple, the chicken is absolutely=20
safe to eat and very bloody.=94
He went on to say, =93 Because we want cheaper chicken in the future,=20
you can expect the chickens to be even younger and bones less developed.
=93It looks to me that the only workable answer is to get the=20
consumer/chef to use a tip sensitive thermometer such as a thermistor=20
or thermocouple and cook to above 150F for 1 minute and learn to enjoy=20
bloody chicken.=94
Understand something here. I am absolutely not picking on the=20
poultry folks. The laws of biology and physics are outside their=20
control. They're in business to make money, just like everybody else.=20
They're concerned with what they produce like any other farmers.=20
The faster they can get the chickens to market, the cheaper it is to=20
raise them. The cheaper it is to raise them, the cheaper it is for us=20
to buy them. Looks like a win-win situation.
Except for one thing. We have to change our minds about something.=20
It used to be, when chickens were slaughtered when older, that there=20
was never any redness at the bones. And, in fact, that was one of the=20
signs of undercooked chicken. No more. The old rules don't hold=20
anymore. And, in further fact, they specifically will mislead you.
My suggestion? Buy a quick read thermometer and cook chicken to=20
about 160F in the thigh, not touching the bone. It'll be done, juicy,=20
tasty and satisfying. It won't look like chicken of a decade or more=20
ago. It isn't the same critter. It's more tender and juicy. Can't=20
believe your eyes, though. But if you do it this way, your taste buds=20
will thank you.
end quote

Ignoramus29069 wrote:

In article , Bob (this one) wrote:

Ignoramus29069 wrote:

I brined a 4.5 lbs beef according to the recipe below. The smell of
the brining liquid was quite delicious. The beef is some "roast" for
$2.65 per lbs, so the meat is probably not very tender to begin
with. Prior to brining, I punctured the meat in a few places, and then
put the meat and brine in a ziploc bag, squeezing out the air.

Don't puncture it in the future, Ig. That makes the brining go
unevenly and provides an escape route for juices. Otherwise, you get
an "A"

Thanks.

I plan on brining it in the fridge for 2-3 days, and then want to
grill it on a rotisserie, until the meat inside reaches proper
temperature, according to my meat thermometer.

Is that a good plan?

I'd do it for the lower end of that timetable, maybe even cut it back
to 1 1/2 days because of the holes. Flavor of the meat should be
enhanced. Overbrining will make it taste salty.

okay, wil do it on Sunday then.

An interesting thing you can do is make a "pellicle." Take it out of
the brine when ready and put it on a rack in the fridge, uncovered,
for a day. It'll form a skin, a pellicle, that does marvelous things
for flavor, moistness and tenderness. Even more than just brining.
Happy meat.

WHat about using a rotisserie on this cheap cut of meat?

Sure. Just keep in mind that it'll cook more quickly than usual. At
that price, it may be a sirloin tip or bottom round. In either case,
it'll be on the toughish side, brining or not. It'll be more tender
than usual, but it won't be magically transformed into prime rib.
Slice thin.

Pastorio

Ignoramus23147 wrote:

In article , Bob (this one) wrote:

Ignoramus29069 wrote:


In article , Bob (this one) wrote:


Ignoramus29069 wrote:


I brined a 4.5 lbs beef according to the recipe below. The smell of
the brining liquid was quite delicious. The beef is some "roast" for
$2.65 per lbs, so the meat is probably not very tender to begin
with. Prior to brining, I punctured the meat in a few places, and then
put the meat and brine in a ziploc bag, squeezing out the air.

Don't puncture it in the future, Ig. That makes the brining go
unevenly and provides an escape route for juices. Otherwise, you get
an "A"

Thanks.


I plan on brining it in the fridge for 2-3 days, and then want to
grill it on a rotisserie, until the meat inside reaches proper
temperature, according to my meat thermometer.

Is that a good plan?

I'd do it for the lower end of that timetable, maybe even cut it back
to 1 1/2 days because of the holes. Flavor of the meat should be
enhanced. Overbrining will make it taste salty.

okay, wil do it on Sunday then.


An interesting thing you can do is make a "pellicle." Take it out of
the brine when ready and put it on a rack in the fridge, uncovered,
for a day. It'll form a skin, a pellicle, that does marvelous things
for flavor, moistness and tenderness. Even more than just brining.
Happy meat.

WHat about using a rotisserie on this cheap cut of meat?

Sure. Just keep in mind that it'll cook more quickly than usual. At
that price, it may be a sirloin tip or bottom round. In either case,
it'll be on the toughish side, brining or not. It'll be more tender
than usual, but it won't be magically transformed into prime rib.
Slice thin.

Got it, thanks. What should the inside temp be? I think that my meat
thermometer is perhaps too conservative.

I'd set the cooking temp rather low, like 250F or so. Pull it when the
inside temps a
rare 120-125
med-rare 127-130
med 135-138
med-well 140-145
well 155+

Let it rest for at least 20 minutes. Slice and serve.

I'd use a quick-read thermo. Cheap, easy to calibrate for accuracy and
easy to use. For stationary roasts, I use a probe thermometer like
Alton Brown uses. Sounds an alarm when either preset time or desired
temp is reached.

Pastorio