Twenty-five pounds three months

On Nov 7, 5:01 pm, "em" wrote:
It doesn't seem unrealistic but it does look tough. I have an appt. with my
surgeon on 2/8. He asked that I knock off 25 pounds between now and then for
some surgery I need to have. (Nothing terribly serious, my fourth op on my
umbilical hernia.) I'm at/around 240 right now, I figure my ideal weight is
around 210, so it'll be tough towards the end.

You can do it.

I haven't been doing splendidly as of late. I started slopping up around
238/240. I haven't gained anything back, but I haven't lost anything either.
Its been, I dunno, a couple months this way. I haven't been too concerned
about it (up till now), because I feel so damn much better than I did when I
was at 300.

Anyhow, I'm back to counting carbs. Everything stops (loss wise) when I go
north of around 40 carbs per day but I don't start gaining either. I also
don't lose anything when my intake drops below 20. I'm going to shoot for
between 20 and 30 carbs a day.

Actually, 20 to 30 is a tough level to maintain. I'm trying to mostly knock
out dairy products and cut down on nuts, which leaves me with veggies,
berries and melons. I can do it, of course, its just going to take a lot of
perseverance. It is way to easy for me to mostly eat meat, cheese, eggs and
nuts and "forget" about the veggies and fruits.

Low carb/high fat diet is good if it can get the bodyfat to go away,
but it is only great if it includes lots of veggies, and some fruits.

I need to make a habit out of eating both a whopping salad and a cup-or-so
of lc fruit every day.

You and me both.

Mike

--Bryan http://www.TheBonobos.com
http://www.myspace.com/BoboBonobo

em wrote:

The HIIT probably wouldn't literally kill me, but I don't care to do it,
and would definitely have to start off pretty slow. I also have bum
knees & minor arthritis as excuses.

You also might find exercise a lot easier than in the past since you've
lost so much already. It'll be a lot less unpleasant than it used to be.

Not carrying around 50+ lbs all the time is gonna let you do a lot more
both with cardio and with strength training stuff.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

I guess one question might be if the doctor has scared you enough to
motivate you to do caloric restriction. I want to say that the doctor is an
ass, but he may be right, since anesthesia is a risk and he may need to dig
through fat to get to the hernia.

-1200 calories on average per day with lots of vitamins and supplements.

Religious use of Fitday or equivalent using a kitchen scale is the only way
to estimate calories. Eyeball estimates won't cut it.

Good luck,

Cubit
320/155/160



"em" wrote in message ...

It doesn't seem unrealistic but it does look tough. I have an appt. with
my surgeon on 2/8. He asked that I knock off 25 pounds between now and
then for some surgery I need to have. (Nothing terribly serious, my fourth
op on my umbilical hernia.) I'm at/around 240 right now, I figure my ideal
weight is around 210, so it'll be tough towards the end.

I haven't been doing splendidly as of late. I started slopping up around
238/240. I haven't gained anything back, but I haven't lost anything
either. Its been, I dunno, a couple months this way. I haven't been too
concerned about it (up till now), because I feel so damn much better than
I did when I was at 300.

Anyhow, I'm back to counting carbs. Everything stops (loss wise) when I go
north of around 40 carbs per day but I don't start gaining either. I also
don't lose anything when my intake drops below 20. I'm going to shoot for
between 20 and 30 carbs a day.

Actually, 20 to 30 is a tough level to maintain. I'm trying to mostly
knock out dairy products and cut down on nuts, which leaves me with
veggies, berries and melons. I can do it, of course, its just going to
take a lot of perseverance. It is way to easy for me to mostly eat meat,
cheese, eggs and nuts and "forget" about the veggies and fruits.

I need to make a habit out of eating both a whopping salad and a cup-or-so
of lc fruit every day.

Mike

Cubit wrote:

Religious use of Fitday or equivalent using a kitchen scale is the only way
to estimate calories. Eyeball estimates won't cut it.

I have never understood the need for a kitchen scale.

If I buy a pound of hamburger, I know how big each of 4 servings are.
If I overestimate my burger size today, I'll be eating a smaller one
tomorrow, so it all averages out even if eyeballing is inaccurate.

Same with stuff like yogurt or cottage cheese, I know what's in the
container, so know how many carbs and calories there are if I eat half
the container. It's close enough and errors cancel themselves out from
one day to the next.

About the only thing I weigh is fresh produce and I weigh that in the
grocery, not at home. It's the same thing... I know I bought a pound of
green beans and can eyeball that into servings.

I do use measuring cups and spoons for some stuff, like measuring the
olive oil to coat the green beans with. But I just don't see what good
a scale does, when I had one, I rarely used it so gave it away.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Jackie Patti wrote:
:: Cubit wrote:
::
::: Religious use of Fitday or equivalent using a kitchen scale is the
::: only way to estimate calories. Eyeball estimates won't cut it.
::
:: I have never understood the need for a kitchen scale.
::
:: If I buy a pound of hamburger, I know how big each of 4 servings are.
:: If I overestimate my burger size today, I'll be eating a smaller one
:: tomorrow, so it all averages out even if eyeballing is inaccurate.
::
:: Same with stuff like yogurt or cottage cheese, I know what's in the
:: container, so know how many carbs and calories there are if I eat
:: half the container. It's close enough and errors cancel themselves
:: out from one day to the next.
::
:: About the only thing I weigh is fresh produce and I weigh that in the
:: grocery, not at home. It's the same thing... I know I bought a
:: pound of green beans and can eyeball that into servings.
::
:: I do use measuring cups and spoons for some stuff, like measuring the
:: olive oil to coat the green beans with. But I just don't see what
:: good a scale does, when I had one, I rarely used it so gave it away.
::

You're kidding, right? I wouldn't be without my kitchen scale. If I want
ot eat a couple of fish filets one day, then some hamburger the next,
chicken breast the next, or eat off a block of cheese....the KS allows me
account for the amounts....even nuts. Even LC fruits can be weighed to get
the carb amounts right.

More importantly, counting (via a KS) in and of itself helps one to control
consumption, IME. YMMV, obviously.

em wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
:: ...
:::
::: "em" wrote in message
::: ...
::::
::
::::: Then you might want to consider counting calories and holding the
::::: line there, in addition to just counting carbs.
::::
:::: I've given that a lot of consideration. Its seems like it would be
:::: kind of hard to do that. The fat content of meat varies
:::: considerably.
:::
::: There is no reason for it to be hard other than your not wanting to
::: do it.
::
:: You're right.
::
:: My long term goal is to find a healthy way of eating that controls
:: itself, low-carb has the potential to do that.

Agreed!

::
::
:::: I think if I stick to what I'm doing I should end up in pretty good
:::: shape.
:::
::: I thought you started this out by saying you weren't making good
::: progress? If so, then you need to do something different.
::
:: We'll, I did a bit of backtracking. I didn't go overboard and put on
:: any more poundage, but I went beyond where I knew I should be and
:: stopped losing weight. I think I've got myself back on track now.

Good.


::
:: Reality check:
::
:: today, Calorie-wise, let me think this out: I had 8oz of canteloupe
:: and a big bowl of cole slaw, which puts me up around 20 carbs. I'll
:: probably have a few squares of watermellon before I hit the sack.
:: All in all, that's gotta be less than 150 calories. I had 840
:: calories worth of meat today. I've got some Italian sausages in the
:: frying pan, I'll have three of those, 660 C. Oh yah, I had about 2T
:: of mayo with that cole slaw, another 200 calories. That's around
:: 1850 calories and 27 carbs. If I work late tonight, (I probably
:: will,) and get real hungry, (a real problem with staying up late,) I
:: may have one more sausage with a couple eggs. That'd be under 2300
:: calories and 30 carbs.

Well, there...you just counting calories. Not too bad. You'd do better if
you measure and weigh, but knowing how much you're eating will help you come
next week if you haven't lost anything. You can drop it a bit to control
your rate of loss better.
::
:: So, then, I'm 240# and not lethargic, I bet I burn 3000 calories a
:: day, maybe a little more. Assuming my diet will pretty much be the
:: same from day-to-day, which it will be, I should lose about 1.5
:: lbs/week.

Exercise will burn more calories, so that means you can either eat a bit or
lose a bit faster. Also, the weight lifting (or body movements) will help
you to look and feel better. Even doing a bunch of body weight squats,
pushup and chin ups would be very good.

::
:: I also managed to not eat any milk products or nuts today, which are
:: two things I'm trying to cut way back on. I'm targetting twice a
:: week for both milk products and nuts, maybe less.

Yeah, cheese and nuts will like off weight loss.
::
:: So, I'll see how it goes. If I'm not losing a pound or more a week
:: within the next two or three weeks, I'll need to hit the calorie
:: counting pretty hard and that's what I'll do.
::

Good. That's a plan.


:::: If I only lose 15 pounds, say, over the next three months, I'll
:::: talk with the doctor about putting the surgery on hold for another
:::: few months. In the meantime, I'll see what the bike riding and so
:::: forth buys for me.
:::
::: Count the bike riding as exercise, and count the calories, count the
::: carbs. www.fitday.com
::
:: I really am hoping to find a reasonably healthy lifestyle for myself
:: that includes healthy eating and regular exercise-type activity. In
:: theory, that should regulate my weight. It took a long time for me
:: to accept the fact that losing a lot of weight takes a long time.

After losing 142 lbs I find I still have to diet back down 10 lbs or so
every now and then. Counting & low carb is what works for me. Counting
helps me think more about what I eat. Exercise is also very helpful because
if I spend an hour doing it, I don't want to undo it in 5 minutes by eating
too much.


:: Now that I'm well along that path, I'm going to do some
:: experimentation and see if I can make things work in this way. A
:: month from now I'll see if this is working or not. If it is, great.
:: If not... like you say, I'm back to Calorie Counting City.

A plan is a plan..and that's way better than not having one. Just make sure
you follow it.

Oh, HIIT doesn't have to be as bad as you probably think it is. First, I'd
suggest you start out easy. Second, I'd suggest you find a low-impact
activity, for injury is a major show-stopper. On your bike, if you have a
nice 1/4 mile hill (relatively isolated from cars) that gets your heart rate
up when riding up it, you'll find that a very effective way to do some HIIT.
Ride up as fast as you can....that will be the high intensity part.....rest
on the way down....then turn around and attach from the other side....rest
at the top & on the way down...you may have to control the interval at which
you attack, or you may have to not push quite as hard as you can...at least
at first. Start with 2 attacks..then 3, then 4...then try to got faster up
those hills. It can actually be fun. And, you don't need to do it for an
hour...20 minutes 3 times a week is fine.

Anyway, just food for thought!

::
:: Mike

Roger Zoul wrote:
Jackie Patti wrote:
:: I have never understood the need for a kitchen scale.
::
:: If I buy a pound of hamburger, I know how big each of 4 servings are.
:: If I overestimate my burger size today, I'll be eating a smaller one
:: tomorrow, so it all averages out even if eyeballing is inaccurate.
::
:: Same with stuff like yogurt or cottage cheese, I know what's in the
:: container, so know how many carbs and calories there are if I eat
:: half the container. It's close enough and errors cancel themselves
:: out from one day to the next.
::
:: About the only thing I weigh is fresh produce and I weigh that in the
:: grocery, not at home. It's the same thing... I know I bought a
:: pound of green beans and can eyeball that into servings.
::
:: I do use measuring cups and spoons for some stuff, like measuring the
:: olive oil to coat the green beans with. But I just don't see what
:: good a scale does, when I had one, I rarely used it so gave it away.
::

You're kidding, right? I wouldn't be without my kitchen scale. If I want
ot eat a couple of fish filets one day, then some hamburger the next,
chicken breast the next, or eat off a block of cheese....the KS allows me
account for the amounts....even nuts. Even LC fruits can be weighed to get
the carb amounts right.

No, I don't weigh anything except fresh produce at the grocery.

I buy a pound of tilapia, so I know the 4 fillets are 4 ounces each.
Boneless skinless chicken breasts are 4 halves for a pound, so about the
same. A pound of hamburger - 4 servings again, so the same weight.
Almost all my meats wind up around 4 ounces per serving; it's trickier
to calculate with bones though, but the databases have values for thigns
like pork chops with bones, so I don't really need to know the boneless
weight.

Frozen fruits and veggies and dairy products like yogurt, cottage
cheese, hard cheese all come in packages by weight also - so I just
figure the fraction I'm eating.

I can't see why I'd weigh stuff at home when I bought the foods weighed
already.

I measure fruit by the cup - mostly berries and melon balls. For
pomegranates, I use the amount from the UDSA database for a half fruit
as that's my normal serving. Nuts I also measure by volume, though it
does depend whether they're whole nuts or chopped pieces.

I can't see how I can be very inaccurate if I cut a half pound block of
cheddar in half twice and call each piece 2 ounces. Same way I measure
cream cheese now that I think of it. I don't see how eyeballing can be
all that inaccurate.


More importantly, counting (via a KS) in and of itself helps one to control
consumption, IME. YMMV, obviously.

I find counting very helpful. Indeed, I have to do it in order to dose
my insulin - have to know how many grams of carb or protein I'm eating
to decide how much Humalog to shoot.

I just don't see the point of a kitchen scale and am confused that it's
recommended so often. Why weigh a burger that I already know is 4
ounces of meat?

Plus... once you've cooked something, how the heck do you measure a dish
with multiple ingredients? If I cook our favorite stirfry, it takes a
pound of hamburger, 8 cups of shredded cabbage, 3 cloves pressed garlic,
about a half inch of ginger root, and a half cup of soy sauce. If I
weigh a serving of that, I have no idea what that means as there's no
database to look up the recipe in by weight. But... I can calculate for
the whole recipe and know what is in a serving if I eyeball the serving
to be a quarter of the whole dish.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Jackie Patti wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Jackie Patti wrote:
::::: I have never understood the need for a kitchen scale.
:::::
::::: If I buy a pound of hamburger, I know how big each of 4 servings
::::: are. If I overestimate my burger size today, I'll be eating a
::::: smaller one tomorrow, so it all averages out even if eyeballing
::::: is inaccurate.
:::::
::::: Same with stuff like yogurt or cottage cheese, I know what's in
::::: the container, so know how many carbs and calories there are if I
::::: eat half the container. It's close enough and errors cancel
::::: themselves out from one day to the next.
:::::
::::: About the only thing I weigh is fresh produce and I weigh that in
::::: the grocery, not at home. It's the same thing... I know I bought
::::: a pound of green beans and can eyeball that into servings.
:::::
::::: I do use measuring cups and spoons for some stuff, like measuring
::::: the olive oil to coat the green beans with. But I just don't see
::::: what good a scale does, when I had one, I rarely used it so gave
::::: it away.
:::::
:::
::: You're kidding, right? I wouldn't be without my kitchen scale. If
::: I want ot eat a couple of fish filets one day, then some hamburger
::: the next, chicken breast the next, or eat off a block of
::: cheese....the KS allows me account for the amounts....even nuts.
::: Even LC fruits can be weighed to get the carb amounts right.
::
:: No, I don't weigh anything except fresh produce at the grocery.
::
:: I buy a pound of tilapia, so I know the 4 fillets are 4 ounces each.

But the 4 fillets aren't the same size, so if you don't eat them during a
very short span of time, you don't know where you slop is. Also, if you buy
Salmon by the slab as I do and only eat a portion of it, with it's irregular
shape, how can you possible know how much you've got without weighing?

:: Boneless skinless chicken breasts are 4 halves for a pound, so about
:: the same. A pound of hamburger - 4 servings again, so the same
:: weight. Almost all my meats wind up around 4 ounces per serving;

Those are all rough guesses and they work as long as you consume within a
very limited time span...but if you don't, or if you decide to have a half
sevring more or less, just because, you can't readily account for it.

:: it's trickier to calculate with bones though, but the databases have
:: values for thigns like pork chops with bones, so I don't really need
:: to know the boneless weight.

Right. And for cooked vs uncooked.

::
:: Frozen fruits and veggies and dairy products like yogurt, cottage
:: cheese, hard cheese all come in packages by weight also - so I just
:: figure the fraction I'm eating.

How can you know the real fraction when the containers are wider at the top
than at the bottom? Also, it's not that you have to weigh everything,
because sometimes its better to do according to already known amounts. But
things like meat, yes. Some cucumbers are bigger than others, even though
they most count as free.

::
:: I can't see why I'd weigh stuff at home when I bought the foods
:: weighed already.

Because of high fat items, you can't always parse it out exactly.

::
:: I measure fruit by the cup - mostly berries and melon balls. For
:: pomegranates, I use the amount from the UDSA database for a half
:: fruit as that's my normal serving. Nuts I also measure by volume,
:: though it does depend whether they're whole nuts or chopped pieces.

I like to do all of these by weight - as it's more accurate IMO. Air takes
up space, so volume measurements are not as good for things that are fine in
detail.
::
:: I can't see how I can be very inaccurate if I cut a half pound block
:: of cheddar in half twice and call each piece 2 ounces.

I get these cheese pie things. Also, the cuts don't always come out in 1/2
amounts. if you buy those cheese cubes, they aren't uniform in size. So,
over time, your way leads to error unless you're limiting yourself to the
same foods.

Same way I
:: measure cream cheese now that I think of it. I don't see how
:: eyeballing can be all that inaccurate.

A little bit here, a little bit there, adds up.

::
::
::: More importantly, counting (via a KS) in and of itself helps one to
::: control consumption, IME. YMMV, obviously.
::
:: I find counting very helpful. Indeed, I have to do it in order to
:: dose my insulin - have to know how many grams of carb or protein I'm
:: eating to decide how much Humalog to shoot.
::
:: I just don't see the point of a kitchen scale and am confused that
:: it's recommended so often. Why weigh a burger that I already know
:: is 4 ounces of meat?

if you buy burger meat, the weight can be anything. When you build a patty
from it, what does it weigh?

::
:: Plus... once you've cooked something, how the heck do you measure a
:: dish with multiple ingredients?

Either do the entire thing and split by weight. Or, cook a fixed about so
that you know exactly what goes in so you can figure the calories. Then eat
it all. That's the approach I use since i cook for me. I'll sometimes
divide by two if I'm lazy.

If I cook our favorite stirfry, it
:: takes a pound of hamburger, 8 cups of shredded cabbage, 3 cloves
:: pressed garlic, about a half inch of ginger root, and a half cup of
:: soy sauce. If I weigh a serving of that, I have no idea what that
:: means as there's no database to look up the recipe in by weight.
:: But... I can calculate for the whole recipe and know what is in a
:: serving if I eyeball the serving to be a quarter of the whole dish.

Weighing is much better than eyeballing. You can zero the scale with plate
the, then add serving, then compute calories as a ratio. Then zero place
with serving, add next serving, etc.

Roger Zoul wrote:
:: I buy a pound of tilapia, so I know the 4 fillets are 4 ounces each.

But the 4 fillets aren't the same size, so if you don't eat them during a
very short span of time, you don't know where you slop is. Also, if you buy
Salmon by the slab as I do and only eat a portion of it, with it's irregular
shape, how can you possible know how much you've got without weighing?

Yeah, but if today's filet is smaller than tomorrow's, it all averages
out anyways. Same deal if you have a 2 lb chunk of salmon and cut it
into 8 pieces; it averages out if some are bigger or smaller.


:: Boneless skinless chicken breasts are 4 halves for a pound, so about
:: the same. A pound of hamburger - 4 servings again, so the same
:: weight. Almost all my meats wind up around 4 ounces per serving;

Those are all rough guesses and they work as long as you consume within a
very limited time span...but if you don't, or if you decide to have a half
sevring more or less, just because, you can't readily account for it.

I don't do that though. If I cook a meal that is supposed to have 4
servings, it is 4 servings. Doesn't matter if it's in tupperware or
frozen for next week or whatever, it is 4 servings. Even when hubby is
nuking leftovers, I tell him if he wants more, take two servings so as
not to screw up my portion sizes.


:: Frozen fruits and veggies and dairy products like yogurt, cottage
:: cheese, hard cheese all come in packages by weight also - so I just
:: figure the fraction I'm eating.

How can you know the real fraction when the containers are wider at the top
than at the bottom?

Cause I take half of the yogurt out of the container (I buy 2-cup
containers) and save half for tomorrow; if it's too much today, it'll be
too little tomorrow and average out. I'm not gonna not eat yogurt for a
month and therefore end up in a calorie deficit today that won't get
fixed until Christmas.


:: I can't see why I'd weigh stuff at home when I bought the foods
:: weighed already.

Because of high fat items, you can't always parse it out exactly.

I measure oils and fats by volume, not weight. I agree I can't know how
much cream is in my coffee or how much olive oil on my salad without
measuring, it's just the scale business I don't get as a tablespoon is a
much more convenient way to measure these things.

Same with stuff like nut butters, a tablespoon is gonna be close enough;
I don't need to distinguish between 15 and 16 grams of almond butter.
The difference is only 3 calories in a food *that* calorically dense and
it can't possibly matter if I eat 3 calories more or less.


:: I measure fruit by the cup - mostly berries and melon balls. For
:: pomegranates, I use the amount from the UDSA database for a half
:: fruit as that's my normal serving. Nuts I also measure by volume,
:: though it does depend whether they're whole nuts or chopped pieces.

I like to do all of these by weight - as it's more accurate IMO. Air takes
up space, so volume measurements are not as good for things that are fine in
detail.

I noticed this morning I don't measure raspberries by the cup. The ones
I buy come in 12 oz packages. So I just use 1/3rd a package of
raspberries in 1/2 package of yogurt. And I don't measure the Davinci
syrup at all, I just glug some in there. If it's not as accurate as a
scale, I still can't see why I'd care if I ate an extra raspberry today
and am thus short one tomorrow.


:: I can't see how I can be very inaccurate if I cut a half pound block
:: of cheddar in half twice and call each piece 2 ounces.

I get these cheese pie things. Also, the cuts don't always come out in 1/2
amounts. if you buy those cheese cubes, they aren't uniform in size. So,
over time, your way leads to error unless you're limiting yourself to the
same foods.

I buy half-pound squares as that's the only way I can find raw cheeses
here, so I think I can get pretty accurate with the cuts. But even with
rounded shapes, if you know the weight and know how many servings, even
if you're wildly wrong on the size of a particular piece of cheese, it's
gonna average out.


Same way I
:: measure cream cheese now that I think of it. I don't see how
:: eyeballing can be all that inaccurate.

A little bit here, a little bit there, adds up.

It won't *add* up though. If I make 4 omelets out an 8oz block of cream
cheese over the course of several weeks, if one omelet is high, another
will be low; so it won't *add* up, but will *add and subtract* itself to
being the same average amount of cream cheese.

There's no way to measure that could possibly make my omelets average
more than 2oz cream cheese as there's only so much cream cheese in the
package and that doesn't change no matter how I measure it out.


:: I just don't see the point of a kitchen scale and am confused that
:: it's recommended so often. Why weigh a burger that I already know
:: is 4 ounces of meat?

if you buy burger meat, the weight can be anything. When you build a patty
from it, what does it weigh?

The meat you buy doesn't have weights on it? All the meat I buy has
labels stating the weight, so it's relatively easy to guesstimate the
portions.

If I have a pound of hamburger and make 4 patties, I can be pretty
darned sure how much they weigh without a scale. If I make a meatloaf
with 2 lbs of burger, I cut it into 8 slices out of the oven and know
how much burger is in each serving.


:: Plus... once you've cooked something, how the heck do you measure a
:: dish with multiple ingredients?

Either do the entire thing and split by weight. Or, cook a fixed about so
that you know exactly what goes in so you can figure the calories. Then eat
it all. That's the approach I use since i cook for me. I'll sometimes
divide by two if I'm lazy.

I would hate to have to cook that often!

Plus, it's just not convenient. Meat comes in pounds. Cabbage comes
in heads (which is about 8 cups shredded). Cooking a pound of hamburger
and a head of cabbage and dividing it into 4 portions is easier than
trying to cook 1/4 lb of hamburger and 1/4 head shredded cabbage so as
to just have one serving.

Plus, it's not like I'm not gonna eat again tomorrow anyways. I prefer
having leftovers as I don't want to have to cook three times a day. If
I'm tired of a food, I just freeze the leftovers until later.


If I cook our favorite stirfry, it
:: takes a pound of hamburger, 8 cups of shredded cabbage, 3 cloves
:: pressed garlic, about a half inch of ginger root, and a half cup of
:: soy sauce. If I weigh a serving of that, I have no idea what that
:: means as there's no database to look up the recipe in by weight.
:: But... I can calculate for the whole recipe and know what is in a
:: serving if I eyeball the serving to be a quarter of the whole dish.

Weighing is much better than eyeballing. You can zero the scale with plate
the, then add serving, then compute calories as a ratio. Then zero place
with serving, add next serving, etc.

How is that better than putting a quarter of it on my plate and the rest
in three tupperware containers?

Hubby is on the road now, so if I made that stirfry today, it would be
lunch and dinner today and tomorrow. No matter how inaccurate my
eyeballing is, that still comes to a lb of hamburger and a head of
cabbage over 4 meals.

Also, to weigh the entire wok full of food would need a different scale
than one I'd measure portions on, so I'd need two scales. I doubt it'd
end up any more accurate when you figure two scales with different tares
and all.

Eyeballing is close enough. And it works for the insulin dosing so I
just can't see how it can be all that inaccurate as I hit my bg targets.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

"Jackie Patti" wrote in message
...
Roger Zoul wrote:
:: I buy a pound of tilapia, so I know the 4 fillets are 4 ounces each.

But the 4 fillets aren't the same size, so if you don't eat them during a
very short span of time, you don't know where you slop is. Also, if you
buy Salmon by the slab as I do and only eat a portion of it, with it's
irregular shape, how can you possible know how much you've got without
weighing?

Yeah, but if today's filet is smaller than tomorrow's, it all averages out
anyways. Same deal if you have a 2 lb chunk of salmon and cut it into 8
pieces; it averages out if some are bigger or smaller.

Sure, if you only eat the same foods everyday. What if you change things up?
The slabs of salmon I have will be much better at one in than the other. So
while I'm going to presumably eat all of it, the fact that their weight can
be so different will mean that I could be getting way more or way fewer
calories than I think I am. And when you combine that with the fact that you
might either other foods, problems will crop up.
Saying that it averages out doesn't mean it will.


:: Boneless skinless chicken breasts are 4 halves for a pound, so about
:: the same. A pound of hamburger - 4 servings again, so the same
:: weight. Almost all my meats wind up around 4 ounces per serving;

Those are all rough guesses and they work as long as you consume within a
very limited time span...but if you don't, or if you decide to have a
half sevring more or less, just because, you can't readily account for
it.

I don't do that though. If I cook a meal that is supposed to have 4
servings, it is 4 servings. Doesn't matter if it's in tupperware or
frozen for next week or whatever, it is 4 servings. Even when hubby is
nuking leftovers, I tell him if he wants more, take two servings so as not
to screw up my portion sizes.

Well, those are your quirks, not mine. I might choose to have more of
something and less of something else, on a given day. Your hubby might feel
he wants more. Apparently, you threaten him with dear life if he should
mess up your portion sizes.

I personally don't worry about portions as I weigh those foods that it makes
sense to weigh - like meats and fish (high fat items).



:: Frozen fruits and veggies and dairy products like yogurt, cottage
:: cheese, hard cheese all come in packages by weight also - so I just
:: figure the fraction I'm eating.

How can you know the real fraction when the containers are wider at the
top than at the bottom?

Cause I take half of the yogurt out of the container (I buy 2-cup
containers) and save half for tomorrow; if it's too much today, it'll be
too little tomorrow and average out. I'm not gonna not eat yogurt for a
month and therefore end up in a calorie deficit today that won't get fixed
until Christmas.

Well, I might. I might not return to the yogurt for a week, or several
days. Of course, I buy those dannon crave control jobbies with only 60 kcals
per container, so I just eat the entire thing and plug that into fitday.

With sour cream, I measure by volume. But I can't do that with meat.



:: I can't see why I'd weigh stuff at home when I bought the foods
:: weighed already.

Because of high fat items, you can't always parse it out exactly.

I measure oils and fats by volume, not weight.

I'm talking about meat, nuts, fish (salmon), etc. I don't see a need to
measure oils on a scale.

I agree I can't know how
much cream is in my coffee or how much olive oil on my salad without
measuring, it's just the scale business I don't get as a tablespoon is a
much more convenient way to measure these things.

Same with stuff like nut butters, a tablespoon is gonna be close enough; I
don't need to distinguish between 15 and 16 grams of almond butter. The
difference is only 3 calories in a food *that* calorically dense and it
can't possibly matter if I eat 3 calories more or less.

I don't either....where did you get the idea that the scale is used for all
measurements?



:: I measure fruit by the cup - mostly berries and melon balls. For
:: pomegranates, I use the amount from the UDSA database for a half
:: fruit as that's my normal serving. Nuts I also measure by volume,
:: though it does depend whether they're whole nuts or chopped pieces.

I like to do all of these by weight - as it's more accurate IMO. Air
takes up space, so volume measurements are not as good for things that
are fine in detail.

I noticed this morning I don't measure raspberries by the cup. The ones I
buy come in 12 oz packages. So I just use 1/3rd a package of raspberries
in 1/2 package of yogurt. And I don't measure the Davinci syrup at all, I
just glug some in there. If it's not as accurate as a scale, I still
can't see why I'd care if I ate an extra raspberry today and am thus short
one tomorrow.

How do you know you only got a 1/3 of a package? What if you don't eat any
tomorrow, or you want a smallish snack later on? So you take an even
smaller than normal about out, and mess up the portion sizes? Or what if
your hubby does? Oh, that's right. He can't and you can't. RoboJackie says
NO!



:: I can't see how I can be very inaccurate if I cut a half pound block
:: of cheddar in half twice and call each piece 2 ounces.

I get these cheese pie things. Also, the cuts don't always come out in
1/2 amounts. if you buy those cheese cubes, they aren't uniform in size.
So, over time, your way leads to error unless you're limiting yourself to
the same foods.

I buy half-pound squares as that's the only way I can find raw cheeses
here, so I think I can get pretty accurate with the cuts.

IME, it's hard to make a knife cut through thick cheese in such a way as to
make the peices very close to similar in size. And, given that you may mix
and match foods, you can't use the busines about it averaging out, because
the errors you make one day may not compensate for the errors you make the
next, unless you're very "tight" in what and how you eat.

But even with
rounded shapes, if you know the weight and know how many servings, even if
you're wildly wrong on the size of a particular piece of cheese, it's
gonna average out.


With high fat foods you can be wildy wrong, especially when you mix and
match and change things up in what, when, and how you eat.


Same way I
:: measure cream cheese now that I think of it. I don't see how
:: eyeballing can be all that inaccurate.

A little bit here, a little bit there, adds up.

It won't *add* up though. If I make 4 omelets out an 8oz block of cream
cheese over the course of several weeks, if one omelet is high, another
will be low; so it won't *add* up, but will *add and subtract* itself to
being the same average amount of cream cheese.

But who does that? What if you use some of the cream cheese for something
else with some other combination of foods? Yeah, you're eating the food you
buy, but you can't claim, unless you're very rigid,
that your calories will average out.


There's no way to measure that could possibly make my omelets average more
than 2oz cream cheese as there's only so much cream cheese in the package
and that doesn't change no matter how I measure it out.


That logic only works if you assume you're always going to divide the block
in a certain way. What if you want a small snack made from a celery stick
and some of that cream cheese? And what if 2 oz is too much for your snack
to stay within your budget?


:: I just don't see the point of a kitchen scale and am confused that
:: it's recommended so often. Why weigh a burger that I already know
:: is 4 ounces of meat?

if you buy burger meat, the weight can be anything. When you build a
patty from it, what does it weigh?

The meat you buy doesn't have weights on it? All the meat I buy has
labels stating the weight, so it's relatively easy to guesstimate the
portions.

If course it has a weight on it...but that weight can be anything. Rarely is
it 1 lbs or 2 lbs. It might be 1.68 lbs. It might be easy to guessitmate
portions, but that doesn't mean they are right. Sure, you'lll eventually
eat all of the meat, but since that's not all you're eating, and since most
normal people might want a little daily variation in their diets, and since
most normal people on LC eat foods that are high in fat, your method will
likely land them in trouble if they are using calorie counting to lose
weight.


If I have a pound of hamburger and make 4 patties, I can be pretty darned
sure how much they weigh without a scale.

If I had a way, I'd challenge you on this. You can be sure within some
sizeable delta. First off, for all you know the scale weight at the store
might be off. Have you ever checked? Hamburger doesn't come in a perfect
square, so there is definitely a + - delta in your portion sizes. Whether
that's important or not depends on the size of the delta and what else
you've eaten that day and how you determined the calorie content of that
food.

If I make a meatloaf with 2 lbs of burger, I cut it into 8 slices out of
the oven and know how much burger is in each serving.

Approximately, anyway. I'd rather know exactly. It's not as hard as you
make it sound and I do it all the time.



:: Plus... once you've cooked something, how the heck do you measure a
:: dish with multiple ingredients?

Either do the entire thing and split by weight. Or, cook a fixed about
so that you know exactly what goes in so you can figure the calories.
Then eat it all. That's the approach I use since i cook for me. I'll
sometimes divide by two if I'm lazy.

I would hate to have to cook that often!

Plus, it's just not convenient. Meat comes in pounds. Cabbage comes in
heads (which is about 8 cups shredded). Cooking a pound of hamburger and
a head of cabbage and dividing it into 4 portions is easier than trying to
cook 1/4 lb of hamburger and 1/4 head shredded cabbage so as to just have
one serving.

It's not that big of a deal for me. I weigh the meat and eyeball the
cabbage (it's very low cal compared to meat, so that error I don't get upset
over).


Plus, it's not like I'm not gonna eat again tomorrow anyways. I prefer
having leftovers as I don't want to have to cook three times a day. If
I'm tired of a food, I just freeze the leftovers until later.

That sounds like just as much work as doing things might way. You freeze,
thaw, put stuff in the fridge...it's just trading effort....


If I cook our favorite stirfry, it
:: takes a pound of hamburger, 8 cups of shredded cabbage, 3 cloves
:: pressed garlic, about a half inch of ginger root, and a half cup of
:: soy sauce. If I weigh a serving of that, I have no idea what that
:: means as there's no database to look up the recipe in by weight.
:: But... I can calculate for the whole recipe and know what is in a
:: serving if I eyeball the serving to be a quarter of the whole dish.

Weighing is much better than eyeballing. You can zero the scale with
plate the, then add serving, then compute calories as a ratio. Then zero
place with serving, add next serving, etc.

How is that better than putting a quarter of it on my plate and the rest
in three tupperware containers?

A lot of dishes that one might make don't divide easily into quarters.
Every seen a slab of ribs that are longer/fatter on one end than the other?
What of the salmon? The stuff I get is noticable bigger and thicker on one
end than the other. Splitting into equal portions just ain't easy. And, what
if I decide that I want to make some salmon spread to eat with rinds? I
gotta dole out a fixed portion? Why? Just weight out an amount, get the
calories it has, then see if that number works in my budget.

My way works because I'm more concerned about the calories than I am eating
all the food. If something doesn't get eaten within a certain time, I toss
it. Thus, the size of those portions will matter because the averaging won't
be something simple I can anticipate anyhow.


Hubby is on the road now, so if I made that stirfry today, it would be
lunch and dinner today and tomorrow. No matter how inaccurate my
eyeballing is, that still comes to a lb of hamburger and a head of cabbage
over 4 meals.

Perhaps that works for you since you seem to be eating within the confines
of a fixed/rigid system that you're created for yourself. Perhaps that's why
you can't understand why others do things differently than you.

Also, to weigh the entire wok full of food would need a different scale
than one I'd measure portions on, so I'd need two scales. I doubt it'd
end up any more accurate when you figure two scales with different tares
and all.

That's why I'd make a single serve. Stirfry is simple enough to do.


Eyeballing is close enough. And it works for the insulin dosing so I just
can't see how it can be all that inaccurate as I hit my bg targets.

Well, maybe because you're eating largely low carb? Insulin is about
normaling BG, not so much about calories. Being off because you over/under
guessed fat isn't nearly as bad as over/under guessing carbs, as far as
insulin is concerned. And the protein isn't nearly as impactful as carbs,
either.