Diet Season is Over

Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote:

Steve wrote:

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Now lets keep this up without the insults.

hiss

Truth insults the untruthful.

hiss

Chung is truthful.

hiss sputter hiss hiss

Correct.

--
Matti Narkia

angry hiss

Correct

Correct.

hiss sputter hiss hiss

Bob Pastorio

hiss

Thanks :-)

hiss

Bob "raging and self-confident" Pastorio

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not request
that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are upset about
reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet
discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary
and has been conducted in the spirit of community service. His motivation
has been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious beliefs as
a Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks
He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently
opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated Dr. Chung on
every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the
argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2 pound
diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be "if you can
not discredit the message then try to discredit the messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is
someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming
discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting "flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the
discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to
achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their
weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were
attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the
hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in
support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are,
using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous
claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the
anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver
one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD
or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147

Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:

Chung is a truthful.

hiss sputter hiss hiss

Bob "raging and self-confident" Pastorio

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not request
that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are upset about
reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet
discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary
and has been conducted in the spirit of community service. His motivation
has been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious beliefs as
a Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks
He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently
opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated Dr. Chung on
every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the
argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2 pound
diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be "if you can
not discredit the message then try to discredit the messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is
someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming
discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting "flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the
discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to
achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their
weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were
attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the
hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in
support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are,
using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous
claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the
anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver
one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD
or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147

Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote:

Dawn Taylor wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:45:55 -0500, Bob announced in
front of God and everybody:

Steve wrote:

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:

Chung is truthful.

hiss

Correct.

Matti Narkia

Correct

Correct.

Oh yeah.

Dawn

Yes. It's correct. You can look it up.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

Tell 'em Joe sent ya.

Bob "raging and self-confident" Pastorio

hiss

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

hiss

Bob (see above)

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message. Because
the author of the message to which I am responding did not request that the
header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are upset about reading this
message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach (2PD)
which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet
discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary and
has been conducted in the spirit of community service. His motivation has
been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious beliefs as a
Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks He
touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently
opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated Dr. Chung on every
perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the argument
soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this discussion
thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the argument(s),
certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2 pound diet approach
toward its author. The rationale appears to be "if you can not discredit the
message then try to discredit the messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is
someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming
discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting "flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the following
observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the
discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to
achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their weight
becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line (including
jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have tried
to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were attempting
to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the
hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in
support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either actively
or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are, using the
on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous
claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the
anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver
one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD or
its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD above
the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147

Pastorio, have you sought counsel over your OBSESSIVE TROLLING of a
cardiology newsgroup?

========================================

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:06:47 -0500, Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

snip malice, braggadocio and commercial troll

The Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD FAQ
Version 1.01, January, 2004

Introduction
------------
New people arriving in sci.med.cardiology (SMC) are often puzzled and
troubled by the controversy surrounding the poster who posts as Dr.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (Dr. Chung) and want to know what the
controversy is about. This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) attempts
to provide an answer.

The FAQ is arranged in typical FAQ form, i.e. a series of questions
and answers. For those who don’t wish to read the whole FAQ, the
following summary is provided.

Summary
-------
Dr. Chung represents himself to be a licensed physician specializing
in cardiology. In this capacity he responds to medical questions on
SMC. If that were all he did, there would probably be no controversy.

The controversy arises from Dr. Chung’s other behaviors on SMC, in
particular:

o He uses SMC to not only proselytize his particular interpretation of
Christianity, but also to disparage and attack anyone with a different
interpretation or different religion.

o He uses SMC to promote his unscientific Two Pound Diet (2PD) and, in
fact, cross posts this information to other groups in order to gain
more exposure.

o When challenged on the above issues, or one of his medical opinions,
he attacks his challengers as "obsessive anti-Christians", "libelers",
"homosexuals", "people who can’t understand English", etc.

o When challenged he performs Internet searches on his challengers in
order to "get the dirt" on them and smear their reputations.

o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs,
dissembling, rhetorical questions, quotes from the bible, religious
mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and other
such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics.

o He is insufferably full of himself, claiming to have "the gift of
Truth Discernment" and to be "Humble" while behaving anything but humbly.

o He uses a foil who posts under variations of the name "Mu" to avoid
killfiles. Mu’s job is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a
reaction, to cross post the reaction to SMC so that Dr. Chung can
disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Whereas
Dr. Chung has to be somewhat careful what he says and so attacks
primarily through insinuation and innuendo, Mu’s tactics are blunt and
direct like those of a playground bully.

The above lists only the highlights of Dr. Chung’s egregious behavior
on SMC. If anything, it understates it. Everything can be verified in
the Google archives.

The issue then arises: so what? As long as Dr. Chung provides free
medical advice on SMC, who cares what else he does?

Many people provide free medical advice on the internet. How does one
know whether it is good advice or bad advice? If the person giving the
advice is, or represents himself to be, a doctor shouldn’t that be
enough? Unfortunately, no.

Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice.
Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity,
ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by
their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence
should be given to their medical advice?

People arrive in this group looking for help. For their own
protection, they deserve to know the quality of the person purporting
to dispense that help and not be lulled into a false sense of security
simply because someone displays an MD after their name. It is the
intention of this FAQ to provide people with enough information to
allow them to make an informed decision.

List of Questions Answered
--------------------------
1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
2. What is the Charter of SMC?
3. Aren’t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What’s the Problem With That?
5. But it’s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
6. But I’m a Christian Too!
7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
8. But Isn’t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical
Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
10. Won’t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who
Challenge Dr. Chung?
12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
16. Who is Mu?
17. What is Mu’s Role?

1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
--------------------------------------
The poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD claims to be a
licensed physician, practicing internal medicine in Atlanta, Georgia,
USA and specializing in cardiology. His signature contains a link to a
website which is consistent with his posts.

It should be noted that anyone can claim to be anyone on Usenet and so
caution is always advised. Indeed there are those who claim that the
poster in question is not Dr. Andrew B. Chung, or is not the Dr.
Andrew B. Chung listed in the Atlanta telephone directory, and/or has
lost his license and/or hospital privileges for misconduct. This FAQ
does not attempt to address those claims one way or the other. The
reader with an interest in these matters can easily find the relevant
discussions archived in Google Groups.

This FAQ deals with the poster who posts as Dr. Chung and restricts
itself to issues demonstrated by those posts. No position is taken on
his "true" identity.

2. What is the Charter of SMC?
----------------------------------
The purpose of this newsgroup is to establish electronic media for
communication between health care providers, scientists and other
individuals with interest in the cardiovascular field. Such
communications will provide quick and efficacious means to exchange
information and knowledge, and offer problems to solutions.

The sci.med.cardiology newsgroup will welcome participants who are
health care providers, trainees, researchers, students or recipients
with interest in the field of cardiovascular problems."

(ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...med.cardiology)

3. Aren’t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
--------------------------------------------------------
What do you think?

4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What’s the Problem With That?
--------------------------------------------------------------
There is no problem with that. Most of the people who participate in
SMC are probably religious. However no one but Dr. Chung feels
compelled to characterize themselves as the "Humble Servant of God" in
their signatures, continually thank God for the opportunity to
"witness", question others about their religious beliefs, claim the
"Gift of Truth Discernment", etc.

When one person insists on introducing his personal religious
interpretations into the discussions, it naturally generates responses
from others who feel just as strongly that their viewpoints are
correct. The resulting debate easily swirls out of control, especially
given Dr. Chung’s intolerant and dismissive attitude towards beliefs
which differ from his. The situation is further exacerbated by Mu’s
rabble raising from the sidelines.

There are over 160 Usenet groups dedicated to the discussion of
religion. Dr. Chung should take his beliefs to one of these and stick
to cardiology in SMC It is a simple matter of respect for others.

5. But it’s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
-------------------------------------------------------
No, it is not. He has even gone so far as to "investigate" someone
asking for advice about stents and accuse her of being anti-Christian.

6. But I’m a Christian Too!
----------------------------
Lots of people are Christians. There is a time and a place for
everything. SMC isn’t the place to "witness" or recruit. In addition,
lots of other people are Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus,
etc. Would SMC be better or worse if they all emulated Dr. Chung in
their proselytizing and recruiting?

Furthermore, if you are a Christian, you should be appalled by Dr.
Chung’s pharisaical, cynical, and manipulative use of Christianity. He
is truly a "whitened sepulcher", loudly proclaiming his adherence to
Christian values while overtly lying, carrying on smear campaigns
against others, making false accusations, dissembling, and marketing
his web site under the guise of altruism. He is "bearing false
witness" and true Christians should be concerned.

As an example, when John Ritter recently died unexpectedly, Dr. Chung
rushed to use this unfortunate event to market his web site. He showed
a total lack of Christian compassion for Mr. Ritter and his family,
even when challenged to do so.

As another example, he recently choreographed a smear campaign against
a poster who had criticized him. Dr. Chung found a homosexual author
with the same first name and then insinuated that the poster and
anyone who agreed with him were engaged in a homosexual relationship.
Ask yourself if this the brand of Christianity you identify with.

7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
-------------------------------------------------- Why should one
individual be given carte blanche to violate the rights of everyone
else? Usenet is a community. It is up to the community to sanction its
members. There is nothing "ad hominem" about challenging inappropriate
and antisocial behavior.

8. But Isn’t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical
Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
----------------------------------------------------------
First, it is only of value if it is good advice. Medical education
alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be
tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and
professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their
behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be
given to their medical advice?

Secondly, despite his protestations to the contrary, Dr. Chung is not
simply motivated by altruism. Every post of Dr. Chung's contains a
link to a website with the following quote:

"If you are looking for a cardiologist and reside in Georgia, please
consider me your best option for a personal heart advocate. Check out
my credentials and my background. Additional information is available
in the protected sections of this web site. Email me at
to me of your interest and I may send you
a temporary username and password to allow a preview. The more
information you email, the more likely my decision to send you a
temporary username and password. If you like what you see and learn
from this website and wish to confer with me about your heart, you or
your doctor should email me privately or call my voicemail at
404-699-2780 to schedule an appointment to see me at my *real*
office." (http://www.heartmdphd.com/office.asp)

Thirdly, Dr. Chung has repeatedly stated that one of his key
motivations for participating is SMC is to "witness" and win converts
to his religious beliefs.

9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on
Usenet?
------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting question.

10. Won’t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. But not challenging him will drive others away.

SMC is historically a "low traffic" group. Therefore, when Dr. Chung
misbehaves, he generates an apparently large response. This is
compounded by Dr. Chung’s need to "get in the last word" and Mu’s
provocations. In spite of this, if someone has a question it will
usually be answered.

Dr. Chung is not the only participant who offers advice in SMC He is
not even the only doctor who participates in SMC However, the
controversy he generates and sustains often makes it appear that he is
the "only game in town".

Finally, Dr. Chung himself drives others away including other
physicians who leave in disgust after being verbally assaulted by him,
and other knowledgeable posters who point out where Dr. Chung’s
medical opinion might be in error or at least not the only one
generally held. Anyone disagreeing with Dr. Chung on any subject can
expect a series of increasingly vitriolic attacks, including threats
of libel suits.

11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who
Challenge Dr. Chung?
--------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting perspective: blame the victim. No other poster (with
the exception of Mu, of course) introduces religion or the Two Pound
Diet. How can it be acceptable for Dr. Chung to introduce these
topics, but not acceptable for others to respond?

In any thread, someone must, of necessity "get the last word". Dr.
Chung has amply demonstrated that he will not be outdone in this respect.

12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
----------------------------------------------
You are probably referring to an "Ad Hominem" _argument_, which
attempts to disprove an adversary's fact by personal attack on the
adversary. An example would be "You are opposed to the Two Pound Diet
because you are anti-Christian".

When someone misbehaves, for example lies or distorts what someone
else is saying, it is not an "ad hominem attack" to call them on it.
It is a legitimate social sanction.

There are also, unfortunately too often, simple personal attacks and
insults on both sides. While we can all wish it weren't so, it is
simply human nature when an argument becomes heated or the other
person is obviously not arguing in good faith. If you are distressed
by this, see the next question.

13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
--------------------------------
There is no reason why you have to see it. Just as you can change the
TV channel if you don't like a show, you can killfile a poster or
thread you don't want to see. See the manual that came with your
Usenet reader for directions on how to do it.

Before you do this, however, you may wish to consider if a truer
picture of the world is not gained by seeing all that goes on - both
the good and the bad.

14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
-------------------------------
The Two pound Diet is a diet which Dr. Chung "invented". It’s only
rule is to restrict yourself to two pounds of food per day. That’s it.
Doesn’t matter if you are a 16 year old girl or an 80 year old man; a
5' 2" woman or a 7' man; a weight lifter or a mattress tester. Two
pounds. That’s it. No more, less if you want. One size fits all.

Oh, and the food? Whatever you want: two pounds of lettuce, two pounds
of ice cream, two pounds of celery, two pounds of bacon, two pounds of
chocolate, two pounds of peanuts... doesn’t matter. Mix and match.
Just keep it under two pounds.

Dr. Chung’s claim is that this magical weight of food, this universal
gustatory constant will cause everyone to arrive at and maintain their
ideal weight. His scientific basis for this claim: none. The proof he
offers: none. Studies supporting this claim: none. Nutritional
explanation: none. Metabolic explanation: none.

And this from a doctor who expects people to take him seriously on
other issues.

15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Chung says it is because being overweight is a risk factor for
heart problems and therefore discussion of the Two Pound Diet is On
Topic. However criticism of the Two Pound Diet is Off Topic as is
discussion of any other diet.

As with religion, Dr. Chung takes every opportunity to introduce the
Two Pound Diet (2PD) into any other thread. In addition Mu trolls
other newsgroups, particularly the diet groups looking for
opportunities to introduce the 2PD in these groups and then cross post
the resulting discussion back to s.m.c so that Dr. Chung can
disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.

Since Dr. Chung and Mu have been laughed off of these other groups and
have been asked repeatedly not to bring up the 2PD in them,
participants of these groups are understandably angered when it
happens yet again and, because of Mu’s cross-posting, all their anger
spills back into SMC

Another reason for ongoing 2PD discussions is Dr. Chung’s habit of
researching anyone who criticizes the 2PD and then cross-posting his
responses back to other groups which the critic has been found to
frequent. He disingenuously claims that he does this as a
"convenience" to the critic, but his true reasons are transparent.
Once again, the cross-post generates a firestorm in SMC

The bottom line is that if the Two Pound Diet is "On Topic" for
anyone, it is "On Topic" for everyone... including it's critics. If it
is "Off Topic", it should not be continually re-introduced by Dr. Chung.

16. Who is Mu?
--------------
Mu is a longtime Usenet Troll who has even merited his own FAQ. He
postures as some kind of personal physical trainer, but who really
knows? He has allied himself with Dr. Chung and serves as the "Bad
Cop" in the Chung - Mu "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine. He specializes in
the short, nasty one-liner and, because unlike Dr. Chung, he has no
reputation to protect, he can afford to be much more direct and offensive.

Mu parrots an even meaner-spirited version of Dr. Chung’s
"Christianity" and does not hesitate to employ anti-Semitism and
homophobia in his attacks.

Naturally, most people would have long ago killfiled Mu, so he changes
his handle on an almost daily basis.

17. What is Mu’s Role?
----------------------
Mu’s role is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction,
to cross post the reaction to SMC so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously
claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.

Mu is also responsible for pitching softballs to Dr. Chung so he can
hit them out of the park, and for re-introducing religion and the Two
Pound Diet should the discussion flag.

Finally, Mu’s role is to tirelessly wear down unsuspecting Dr. Chung
critics, deflecting the blows that would otherwise be aimed at Dr.
Chung. He is Dr. Chung’s Internet equivalent of the "rope-a-dope".
Insults roll off him like water off a duck as do attempts to reason
with him or even have a civil discussion.

Most people have learned to ignore him and his comment is usually the
last one in any thread sub-tree where it appears.

Comments and/or corrections to this FAQ will be taken under advisement.



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500, Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Now lets keep this up without the insults.

hiss

Truth insults the untruthful.

And insults from a fraud who says he doesn't do ad hominem defines the
fraud.

Chung is a fraud.

Bob

Meet Bob Pastorio.

Bob likes to think he is an upscale, right on kind of guy. But in the
darkness, he would prefer to endanger the lives of cardiac care
patients so he TROLLS sci.med.cardiology dozens of times each day.

Now you know all you need to know about this king-sized egomaniac.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:15:43 -0800, Dawn Taylor
wrote:


Chung is a fraud.


Oh yeah.

Dawn

Dawn Taylor, why do you delete the Xposts to the movie and gossip
groups when you are caught TROLLING a cardiac care ng?

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Bob wrote in message ...
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote:

Dawn Taylor wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:45:55 -0500, Bob announced in
front of God and everybody:

Steve wrote:

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:

Chung is truthful.

hiss

Correct.

Matti Narkia

Correct

Correct.

Oh yeah.

Dawn

Yes. It's correct. You can look it up.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp Http://www.chungfraud.com

Tell 'em Joe sent ya.

Bob Pastorio

hiss

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

hiss

Bob (see below)

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not
request that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are
upset about reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the
Usenet discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has
been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of community
service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen
from his religious beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of
Himself to better the health of folks He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are
vehemently opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and
have lost the argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2
pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the
messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll"
is someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no
redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting
the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the
2PD to achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when
their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they
were attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Bob "raging
and self-confident" Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements,
the hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed
louder in support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they
are, using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and
libelous claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily
debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning
the anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to
deliver one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the
2PD or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57723657

Bob wrote in message ...
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote:

Steve wrote:

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Now lets keep this up without the insults.

hiss

Truth insults the untruthful.

hiss

Chung is truthful.

hiss

Correct.

--
Matti Narkia

hiss

Correct

Correct.

hiss

Bob Pastorio

hiss

Thanks :-)

hiss

Bob

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not
request that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are
upset about reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the
Usenet discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has
been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of community
service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen
from his religious beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of
Himself to better the health of folks He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are
vehemently opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and
have lost the argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2
pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the
messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll"
is someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no
redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting
the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the
2PD to achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when
their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they
were attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Bob "raging
and self-confident" Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements,
the hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed
louder in support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they
are, using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and
libelous claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily
debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning
the anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to
deliver one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the
2PD or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57723657

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote in message ...

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:


Bob wrote:


Dawn Taylor wrote:


On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:45:55 -0500, Bob announced in
front of God and everybody:


Steve wrote:


On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):


Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:



Chung is a fraud.

hiss

Correct.

Matti Narkia

Correct


Correct.

Oh yeah.

Dawn

Yes. It's correct. You can look it up.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp Http://www.chungfraud.com

Tell 'em Joe sent ya.

Bob Pastorio

hiss

You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

hiss

Bob (see below)


You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not
request that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are
upset about reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the
Usenet discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has
been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of community
service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen
from his religious beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of
Himself to better the health of folks He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are
vehemently opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and
have lost the argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2
pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the
messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll"
is someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no
redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting
the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the
2PD to achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when
their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they
were attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Bob "raging
and self-confident" Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements,
the hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed
louder in support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they
are, using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and
libelous claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily
debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning
the anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to
deliver one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the
2PD or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57723657

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

Bob wrote in message ...

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:


Bob wrote:


Steve wrote:


On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:16:04 -0500, Matti Narkia wrote
(in message ):


Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:10:24 -0500 in article
Bob wrote:


Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:


Now lets keep this up without the insults.

hiss

Truth insults the untruthful.

hiss

Chung is loathsome.

hiss

Correct.

--
Matti Narkia

hiss

Correct

Correct.

hiss

Bob Pastorio

hiss

Thanks :-)

hiss

Bob


You poor guy.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

FYI Note: I am aware that I am responding to a cross-posted message.
Because the author of the message to which I am responding did not
request that the header be trimmed, I have not trimmed it. If you are
upset about reading this message, a few suggestions:

(1) Yell at Bob
(2) Report Bob to his ISP
(3) Killfile this thread.
(4) Killfile me.
(5) Read about free speech.

Bob's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach
(2PD) which is described completely at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the
Usenet discussion(s). His participation in this discussion(s) has
been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of community
service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen
from his religious beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of
Himself to better the health of folks He touched:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are
vehemently opposed to the 2 pound diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and
have lost the argument soundly at every point:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp

These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this
discussion thread(s).

However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the
argument(s), certain parties have redirected their hatred of the 2
pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the
messenger."

Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll"
is someone who posts under the cloak of anonymity messages with no
redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.

These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the
following observations were made:

(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting
the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the
2PD to achieve near-ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when
their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line
(including jpegs of the actual diplomas).

Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have
tried to attack Dr. Chung's credentials knowing full well that they
were attempting to libel him. One notable example is Mr. Bob "raging
and self-confident" Pastorio:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp

When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements,
the hateful folks hiding in the darkness of anonymity only hissed
louder in support of their fallen hero.

Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either
actively or as lurkers can easily dismiss the hisses, for what they
are, using the on-line third-party resources at:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp

where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and
libelous claims that credentials were bought are easily and summarily
debunked.

Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning
the anon posters who continue to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):

(1) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or
accountability).
(2) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory
characters.
(3) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to
deliver one-sided insults.
(4) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by
cross-posting.
(5) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the
2PD or its author.

and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.

It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to
speed.

It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD
above the din of hissing from the peanut gallery.


Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557

What is all this about?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K57723657