A question about calories - metabolism and "starvation mode" andWeight Watchers

I think this is probably true, more or less, we are similar height. Here is
a link for a polar monitor. I have used mine several times over the years to
recalculate what I burn in exercise as I got more fit and lighter.

http://www.polar.fi/polar/channels/eng/

or

http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/coa...er/coaches.asp

They are pricey, but I have found it to be pretty indestructible and very
useful.

--
Lesanne
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
It sounds like your net calories are about the same as mine.

What's a polar heart rate monitor?

doug



On 12/1/05 1:04 AM, in article ,
"Lesanne" wrote:

This is a little complex, because WW allows flex points and activity
points,
and based upon the makeup of your diet (if you eat high fiber low fat you
get more calories) you may get more or less.

An average for where you are now, taking into account the average calorie
count per point plus an addition of the flex points for the week comes
out
to about 1800 daily. At goal, on maintenance since you are my height
yours
would be the same as mine, which is still around 1800. As you lose, the
program cuts you back to reflect your new size. When you consider that I
eat
my flex points and my exercise points that I earn I maintain on around
2,000
to 2,200 with no problems. I have been looking at this in detail because
of
all these posts. When I look at a period of an entire month that I kept
records early on, when I maintained my weight within a pound or two of my
goal, the average day came out to 2,194. Around 250 calories of that were
exercise related. I work out HARD for an hour to burn 250 calories.

Which brings up the other thing. Invest in a polar heart rate monitor,
have
it calculate your fitness level, and it will tell you much more accurate
estimates of calories burned in your workout.

I have been taking my own advice this week since I am taking off about 4
pounds I gained over Thanksgiving. I mixed up my workout, got off the
bike
and suffered power walking/jogging one day, cut back my calories to
offset
the really high days I had Thursday through Sunday, and 3 of the 4 are
already gone. When I say cut back, I am eating around 1,800. Not net of
exercise. Total, 1,800.

I was eating those muffins

--
Lesanne
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...



On 12/1/05 1:21 AM, in article ,
"Lesanne" wrote:

Also one other minor point. If you are eating the same foods more or less
day after day and taking the packaged calorie count, this can also be a
problem. They are sometimes not accurate. If something that you eat daily
has an error on the label it could be a big deal. The most obvious of
these
sorts of things is a local muffin we have here, labeled at 240 calories.
Someone in my group doubted it and sent it for analysis with some Houston
relative who had access to equipment. It was actually a 385 calorie bomb.

Now this is an excellent point. I too have been worried about maybe
relying
on a mislabeled product because I don't vary what I eat enough.

doug

I don't think you are eating at a low enough level to be in "starvation
mode" but I think you will lose faster if you make a few changes.

Vary your calories, don't do the same thing day after day.
Same goes for the foods you eat.
Same goes for activity.


--
Lesanne
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
Just an aside here... From the responses here my impression of peoples'
opinions on the topic seem to be:

1. A few people believe strongly in the starvation mode theory and think
it
kicks in relatively early so you have to constantly think about eating
more
calories if you are having trouble losing weight.

2. A few people completely dismiss the starvation mode theory as nonsense.

3. Most people think there is a starvation mode but that (a) it is a very
minor effect and (b) if it exists it takes place at really, really low
calorie levels - much less than any of us are eating.

That's what the consensus seems to be here.

doug

"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...

Another problem with points in day-to-day life is that most packaged
products, or menu items, etc. (at least here) simply don't list fiber
separately. In restaurants you usually get only calories, not fat OR
fiber,
so you are really in the dark.

So in PRACTICAL terms if you need to refer to values on menus you really
only have calories to work with.

Another practical day-to-day example. This morning, for variety, I decided
to pick up something at the convenience store and heat it up for
breakfast.
It was a "grilled potato" something in a tray with a creamy sauce. It was
only 334 calories, which is less than what I usually have for breakfast,
so
I figured "why not"?

There are 19.7 gm of fat in it and fiber is not listed.

So lets consider the maximum and minimum points here, with or without
fiber:

With 4 gm of fiber it would be 6 points (if you truncate, like you did in
your example).

Without 4 gram of fiber it would also be 6 points (also, if you truncate,
like you did in your example).

If you take it to the nearest point and round it would be the difference
between 6 and 7 points.

Now I just use calories, and I say that basically "a point is 50
calories" -
and it is. Taking the maximum rounded point values you get "between 300
and
350 calories" - and that's what it is - 334 calories.

So that's what I mean when I say it doesn't really make a statistical
difference whether I use calories or points. And it is easier to use
calories because all the fiber and fat information is not always available
when you need it the most.



You aquire points by exercise as well. it is also not straight forward.
30 min at high intensity if you weight 100 pounds = 2 points
30 min at high intensity if you weight 300 pounds = 7 points

I do something similar with exercise type vs time.

Have you considered joining online?

The neck for me is the points. Maybe it's easier in the U.S. but living
here
in Japan makes counting points extremely difficult except for foods I
prepare for myself at home. It's the lack of fiber/fat values on things
you
buy outside...

Is it typical for restaurants in Japan to list the calorie counts on the
menu? I have never seen that in the USA.
--
Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.

"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
Just an aside here... From the responses here my impression of peoples'
opinions on the topic seem to be:

I don't think there is too much disagreement actually. The term "starvation
mode" is stupid; those who insist on using it should take a look at some
pictures of concentration camp survivors. I find it hard to believe that
anyone thinks if you stop eating altogether you will gain or maintain
weight.

That said, there are certainly metabolic changes and hormonal changes that
occur during weight loss. And because of these and also (IMHO more
importantly) for psychological reasons it makes good sense to plan
occasional diet breaks. These breaks become more important as you approach
"ideal" weight.
--
Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.

"Lesanne" wrote in message
...

I have been taking my own advice this week since I am taking off about 4
pounds I gained over Thanksgiving. I mixed up my workout, got off the bike
and suffered power walking/jogging one day, cut back my calories to offset
the really high days I had Thursday through Sunday, and 3 of the 4 are
already gone.

Do you really think you gained 4 pounds of fat in 4 days? The weight gain
was mostly water; the quick loss is no suprise.
--
Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.

It's a bit hard to figure out exactly what the product is and how much it
costs at their page, isn't it?

doug



On 12/1/05 10:16 AM, in article ,
"Lesanne" wrote:

I think this is probably true, more or less, we are similar height. Here is
a link for a polar monitor. I have used mine several times over the years to
recalculate what I burn in exercise as I got more fit and lighter.

http://www.polar.fi/polar/channels/eng/

or

http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/coa...er/coaches.asp

They are pricey, but I have found it to be pretty indestructible and very
useful.

On 12/1/05 11:23 AM, in article , "Matthew
Venhaus" wrote:

Is it typical for restaurants in Japan to list the calorie counts on the
menu? I have never seen that in the USA.

It's not typical, but you can find a few chains - Jonathan's, Royal Host,
Saizeriya, some others, which do. But none list fiber and fat too. If a
restaurant is going to list anything it is calories.

doug

Well DUH, but if I had let the gain discourage me and gotten all down about
it then I would possibly have wanted to eat about THAT. I know it wasn't all
fat, at the same time 3 or 4 days of overeating could have been turned into
fat if I didn't get back to my routine.
--
Lesanne
"Matthew Venhaus" wrote in message
...

"Lesanne" wrote in message
...

I have been taking my own advice this week since I am taking off about 4
pounds I gained over Thanksgiving. I mixed up my workout, got off the
bike and suffered power walking/jogging one day, cut back my calories to
offset the really high days I had Thursday through Sunday, and 3 of the 4
are already gone.

Do you really think you gained 4 pounds of fat in 4 days? The weight gain
was mostly water; the quick loss is no suprise.
--
Matthew
Slow and steady wins the race.

I didn't try. I got mine a couple of years ago. It is a belt that goes
around your chest that calculates your heart rate. It has a mode where you
can determine your own target zone, and then it will remember that and
figure out how many calories you are burning using your own fitness level.
It cost over $100. It was worth it. I had a cheaper one that did not do what
this one does.
--
Lesanne
"Doug Lerner" wrote in message
...
It's a bit hard to figure out exactly what the product is and how much it
costs at their page, isn't it?

doug



On 12/1/05 10:16 AM, in article
,
"Lesanne" wrote:

I think this is probably true, more or less, we are similar height. Here
is
a link for a polar monitor. I have used mine several times over the years
to
recalculate what I burn in exercise as I got more fit and lighter.

http://www.polar.fi/polar/channels/eng/

or

http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/coa...er/coaches.asp

They are pricey, but I have found it to be pretty indestructible and very
useful.