For Dogman

Dogman wrote:

And our debt keeps increasing because the American people can't yet
get it across to our elected representatives that we want them to STOP
THE SPENDING! PERIOD!

One of the historical feratures of democracies (of all types including
republics) is that they last while fiscally responsible people are in
charge. Eventually the masses figure out that they can vote themselves
the public treasury and the democracy goes broke. This is currently
happening world wide and for any one democracy it's a matter of time.
Some are in less trouble than others but done are doing well.

The low carb tie in is very loose. The poor must eat high carb diets
because they can't afford the better quality low carb meat and vegitable
based diet. Economic decline means more poor people in developed
countries and more starving in undeveloped countries. Eventually world
trade and off shoring well put an end to hunger but it will take a few
more decade long economic up and down cycles. Until then we'll have
people who eat cattle fodder because they can't afford to feed it to the
livestock.

On 17/10/2011 11:13 PM, wrote:
On Oct 16, 12:41 pm, wrote:
Show us where the entire Congress said the USA is responsible
for the financial problems in Ireland, Greece or the rest of Europe.
You really don't know much about govt, do you. You might find
a loon or two out of 500 that said that, but we haven't even seen
that from you, let alone the entire Congress.

Your president is lying?

Show us where Obama said the USA is responsible for
the world's financial problems in places like Ireland and
Greece.

Ever heard of newspapers, news reports, magazines, media? Ever read the
transcripts from congress, upper and lower?

Apparently you've never read newspapers or transcripts from
Congress, because if you did, you'd know there is no upper
and lower.

No? What is the senate?

It is the upper house. Combined with the House of Representatives they
comprise the US Congress. The terminology might differ but the result is
the same - two houses, one upper, one lower.



Ever read any media that
isn't US centric? British, German, French? Apparently not. Maybe you had
better tell him to stop apologising as if you are right, he has nothing
to apologise for. It might give him more time for other things, like
maybe running the country properly instead of running it into the ground.

So, Obama is so incompetent that he's running the US into
the ground but he's your source for what's wrong with America.
Go figure.

What's to figure? He often admits when his government has been wrong,
although he is more fond of admitting that previous governments have
been "more" wrong.




Your top economists who support the opinion of your government in their
books, papers and articles are all lying?

You could probably find some economists, who being
America haters and socialists, would have that opinion.

That your permanent response? Anyone academic or economist who has a
valid and well researched opinion who doesn't think that the sun shines
out of the US' ass is simply an America Hater? Ever heard of a certain
habit associated with Ostriches?

But I'd still like you to find one that says the problems
in Greece, Ireland, etc are the fault of the USA.

In other words, you have no such economist.

I have a fistful of them, but then I don't go through life with my eyes
wide shut.





Even the banks abroad that were directly impacted
by the mortgage crisis here have no excuse. Everyone
knew the US housing market had gone way up for
years, escalating even more sharply after 2000.
And any banker with any brain and/or experience
knows that these bubbles end badly.

Except the American bankers. Right - got you.

No fool. I never said the American bankers did not make
those same mistakes. Only that to lay the blame on them
for what is happening in places like Greece and Ireland is
totally bogus.

Tell it to your president, tell it to your senate, tell it to your
government. They have admitted blame and your government has apologised
for it. It caused a stink among many of the more Gung Ho jingoists among
you at the time. Were you asleep?


Those countries got where they are by years
of excessive spending on socialist welfare states.
And any banks around the world that had too much exposure
to sectors of the US and were harmed by it did so on their
own and are just as negligent as any financial institution in
the USA. Got it now?

Socialism is to blame - even in countries that are not socialist. Good
trick - if it were true. Providing for the citizens of a country is a
government's job, it has nothing to do with socialism as a political
direction.



So, if they
held debt obligations linked to those markets, how
is it the fault of the USA and not their own greed
and stupidity?

They trusted the US when it kept saying that it could control things
fiscally.



LOL. Who exactly said that? No one needed to say it
because no one saw the real estate meltdown coming.

Many did, it was headlined and discussed well before it finally
happened. The US kept assuring all concerned that it would be
controlled. A bit like the WMDs, all bull****.


That's how it goes with most financial meltdowns and
recessions. To believe your case, you'd have to believe
banks in Europe had exposure to real estate in the USA
without knowing how fast it had gone up, how far, and
that loans were being made with little or nothing down.

They did, they were heavily invested.

Yes, I'll have another helping of a billion dollars of
those CMO's please, no need to check them out....

Are Canadian bankers that stupid that they can't
figure out how secure any of their investments are?
And when some of them blow up, instead of being
adults and taking responsibility, do they whine about
it being the US that "mislead" them?

Canada has reduced its debt considerably over the past decade - the US
has increased its debt. That link that the not so bright dogboy provided
whilst trying to denigrate Canada had this to say.

"In 1990, 38 cents of every dollar taken by Ottawa was spent just paying
the annual interest on our federal debt. Thanks to increased tax
revenues, lower interest rates and 11 straight years of debt repayment,
that figure is down to 13.5 cents. Why would we want to go back?"

Canada has it "US styled" politicians too, but people are turning on
them. At least Canada's debt is measured in billions, not trillions.




I think that you have a problem with reality.

Really? You're the one that claimed China owns
all the US debt, when in fact it's 8%.

I said that China holds the majority of US foreign debt,

Just how stupid are you? 8% is NOT a majority.

Just how stupid are you? Your own Government makes this claim.



that it holds
more than any other nation. It does, that is indisputable. The US is in
hock to China.

As far as foreign countries, yes, China does hold the most.

Since when is "most" not a majority?

It is pointless discussing anything with you, you contradicts yourself
from one sentence to the next.

It's narrowly more than that which Japan owns. It's 8% of
the total debt. So what? What countries own Canada's debt?
Foreign countries are lining up to buy US debt because
they know that in these uncertain times, it's still one of the
safest investments in the world.

Bull****! They are only trying to protect initial investments. No one
trusts the US currency - it is why the US credit rating has just been
downgraded

Those buying US govt
securities clearly do not have a problem, it's only you
with no skin in the game, who do.

They have a major problem. Read some of the foreign newspapers and see
what the real opinions of the US are.






You're the
one that claimed the USA govt is so deep in debt
it can't make payments...

If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?

Because while making those payments, we are continuing
to borrow more. And lenders, unlike you, obviously have
high confidence in our ability to repay it, otherwise they
would not be doing so at 3% interest rates, now, would
they?

They are refusing, the US is finding it harder to borrow money, China
has cut back on their "open" policy. Don't you follow and world news?

Yes, if it continues unabated, it will eventually
reach a crisis. But that is a big IF and we're clearly nowhere
near that yet.

It is not an if, it is a when.




The only thing
that you have done is play games with interest rates and devalue your
currency to make the effective debt less. You aren't repaying it, and
you are still trying to borrow. America is broke - ask the White House.

Then why is Canada also not broke? Your govt debt to GDP is
about the same.

Because it has been managing to reduce its principal, not just pay
interest like the US.

And why is Japan, with a debt ratio 2.5X that
of the USA, not way ahead of everyone else?

Japan is the only major country in straits as dire as the US, and much
of that is result of a natural disaster, not incompetent government.

Why aren't you
sounding the alarm about those countries?

I am not sounding an alarm, I making comment about the US in response to
jingoistic comments made here.


Once the proper steps are taken after the next election,
the US economy will recover.

Yeah, right. Like it was going to recover with Obama.

A recovery from recession
has always occured and only a fool
would bet against it.

Ever heard of Russia? You know, the other super power in the cold war.
They have yet to recover.

Economic growth makes a huge
impact on closing the deficit and together with spending
cuts and restraint the budget deficit will shrink.

What growth? You are not competitive. The world's biggest market is
China, what can the US sell to China at a price that the Chinese wil be
interested in purchasing? What can it sell to Europe or the UK? Chinese
manufactured, American badged iPods?




That is what those
buying
US bonds know.

The sale of bonds has dropped and will slide further. No on trusts teh
green-back any more.

As for you, since you're not even in the game,
and think 8% is a majority, why would anyone listen to you?

I have not once mentioned 8%, that is all yours. I simply repeated fact.
That China holds the majority of US debt. The amount is higher, much
higher if you factor in Chinese held non-Government debt.



It would also be a good thing if you could learn to trim posts.

Why? I don't have a problem reading, nor with bandwidth - we are no
longer in a dial-up age.

On 17/10/2011 11:33 PM, James Warren wrote:
On 10/16/2011 10:31 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:46:07 +1000,
wrote:

On 17/10/2011 3:46 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 02:41:01 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?

Hey, Sgt. Preston, if we weren't making payments the entire global
financial system would already have collapsed.

Paying the loans off you dimwit, not just the interest. You aren't
reducing the debt, you are just treading water.

Again, moron, you asked why the debt is increasing. It's because we
keep spending more than taxes bring in. It's really that simple, which
means that you won't be able to understand it.

Tell you what...you worry about Canada's debt, and I'll worry about
America's.

http://www.debtclock.ca/

Troll.




--
Dogman

So comparing US to Canada.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

We find that the per person debt share of the national debt is
three times higher for Americans than for Canadians. How did that
happen? Canada has more social welfare programs than the US.



Don't tell him that, he'll want to immigrate. Tell him that Canadian
girls have no vaginas, but three mothers. Americans don't like mother in
laws. You can tell by all the mother in law jokes.

It gets more scary when you factor in private debt. They must give
credit cards away like candy in the US.

In article
,
" wrote:

Still waiting to see where that senate committee report says
the USA is responsible for what is happening in Ireland, Greece,
and next Italy.

So you're saying that capitalism's answer to obesity is low employment,
that it encourages lowcarbing (and low fat, and low protein consumption)
as well?

Oh, and my sig is "my" sig. Get used to it.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

In article ,
Elmo wrote:

If you are making payments, why is your debt increasing?

Because someone hijacked a news group?
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:13:59 +1000, Elmo
wrote:
On 17/10/2011 11:41 AM, Dogman wrote:

Clearly, economics and America are things you know nothing about.

I know a lot about economics, and I know what your own government,
coupled with many other internationally renowned, well experienced and
very fiscally aware authorities state.

I know nothing about the imaginary America that you seem to live in. Do
you have to go through the back of an old wardrobe to get there?

BWAH!!!


--
[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it¹s not that difficult to get out of it.
The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That¹s hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
The second is you tax corporations so that they don¹t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:13:59 +1000, Elmo
wrote:

[...]
I suppose that anyone else who states the truth about the US economy is
clueless too?

What kind of stupid question is that? Whose truth? Yours? Joel
Stein's?

There is only one truth. The true, unbiased record of events. The
suggestion that there is more than one truth can only come from juvenile
or mendacious minds.

There are always different truths, whether you want to admit it or
not. There's your version, for example, and my version.

My version is fully supported by facts, yours is supported by
hyperbole, gross distortion, and bull caca.

Yeah, riiiight.

I think that I would prefer to believe your own congress,

What would you like to believe about them?

Alan
Greenspan, the World Bank, and China itself

Yet China continues to invest in our bonds! And the World Bank is
basically funded by us, and we're its largest shareholder!

China has begun cutting back on all US/foreign investment.

Oh, please. They're buying less these days because less is needed.

But they're still buying, as are most countries (even countries who
supposedly hate us), because it's still the safest investment on the
planet.

And if they ever stop buying, so will we, if you know what I mean.

Let's see how that works out for them, EH?

before fiscally illiterate
boobs like you. Alan Greenspan has both the credentials and a lifetime
of experience, you don't even have a grasp of basic fiscal reality.

Alan Greenspan helped to get us into this mess!

So who should know better?

Could it be that the guy doesn't want to share the blame for what
happened?

Really, Sgt. Preston, please start talking about low-carb eating,
something you may (or may not) know something about.

I know a lot about low carb eating, I have been low carb for decades.

Then why not talk about it, it's something you should know something
about, right? It's obvious that you don't know anything about the U.S,
economics, etc.

You with your xenophobic BS

I'm not xenophobic. I generally like foreigners. Especially Canadians.

But those foreigners who show even a hint of anti-Americanism will not
be treated kindly by me.

are the one who started this little foray
into political areas. Maybe you shouldn't have started it?

I haven't started one political tirade. Not one!

But I'm not the kind of person who easily turns the other cheek, so if
others here want to make this an American bash-fest, well, you're not
going to like what I have to say in RESPONSE to that.

Clearly, economics and America are things you know nothing about.

I know a lot about economics

You haven't shown anything here thus far that would make anyone ever
believe that. But there's merit in not giving up.

and I know what your own government,
coupled with many other internationally renowned, well experienced and
very fiscally aware authorities state.

No, what you know is only what a handful of radical lefists and
miscellaneous nincompoops have said. And like many true-believers, you
have no desire to look any further.

They reinforced your own beliefs, and that's all that matters to you.

The actual truth has no currency in your little kingdom.


--
Dogman

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 11:48:38 +1000, Elmo
wrote:

[...]
Again, moron, you asked why the debt is increasing. It's because we
keep spending more than taxes bring in.

I know why it is increasing, as does anyone who is sentient and capable
of reading. I just wanted you to admit it.

I've been saying that from the get-go. So has everyone else.

That you're just now figuring it out, well, you must be a member of
Mensa too, EH?

you spend huge amounts but
have nothing to show for it

The most powerful nation on earth has nothing to show for it?

Producers of the most technology, the most food, the best health-care
system, the most medical advancements, the best pharmaceutical drugs,
the most scientific advancements, the best military, the best
institutions of higher learning, one of the highest standards of
living, etc. have nothing to show for it?

Are you from Canada, or from Pluto?

other than more enemies and less
international respect.

I think it's a pretty good exercise, actually, to be judged by the
kinds of countries who hate us, and are our enemies.

Knowing that countries like Iran, North Korea, Russia, Venezuela,
Cuba, etc. hate us, well, that just brings a smile to my face.

Most countries' debts are a results of spending
that has given their citizens advantage.

U.S citizens have had it pretty good for a long, long time, if they
were willing to work hard for a living. A lot of that debt is due to
providing a safety net for those who are unable or unwilling to work
for a living.

And when we send you the bill for living under our nuclear umbrella
all these years, your debt is going to go through the roof.

It's really that simple, which
means that you won't be able to understand it.

I can understand you and there isn't much around that is simpler than
you are.

Well, there is one thing...

Tell you what...you worry about Canada's debt, and I'll worry about
America's.

I am not worried about Canada's debt, Canadians, aren't governed by
fiscal illiterates,

Then how did you get all that debt?

Canada doesn't start wars

But what it does, of course, is live safely under our nuclear
umbrella, for which Americans pay.

By the way, we don't start wars either. But we're pretty good at
finishing them.

Canada will eventually overcome it

Of course you will. And so will the U.S.

And it'll happen that much faster by you worrying only about YOUR
problems, while we worry about ours, you pompous, arrogant, ungrateful
little prick.

With neighbors like you, we don't need enemies.

--
Dogman

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:33:33 -0300, James Warren
wrote:

[...]
Tell you what...you worry about Canada's debt, and I'll worry about
America's.

http://www.debtclock.ca/

Troll.

So comparing US to Canada.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

We find that the per person debt share of the national debt is
three times higher for Americans than for Canadians. How did that
happen?

Can't you read either?

WE SPEND MORE THAN WE TAKE IN!

But let me ask you the questions now, okay?

Why do YOU think our debt is greater than yours?

How do YOU think it happened?

Huh?

--
Dogman

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:19:41 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
wrote:

Dogman wrote:

And our debt keeps increasing because the American people can't yet
get it across to our elected representatives that we want them to STOP
THE SPENDING! PERIOD!

One of the historical feratures of democracies (of all types including
republics) is that they last while fiscally responsible people are in
charge. Eventually the masses figure out that they can vote themselves
the public treasury and the democracy goes broke. This is currently
happening world wide and for any one democracy it's a matter of time.
Some are in less trouble than others but done are doing well.

You bet, Doug. Those chickens are finally coming home to roost.

The low carb tie in is very loose. The poor must eat high carb diets
because they can't afford the better quality low carb meat and vegitable
based diet. Economic decline means more poor people in developed
countries and more starving in undeveloped countries. Eventually world
trade and off shoring well put an end to hunger but it will take a few
more decade long economic up and down cycles. Until then we'll have
people who eat cattle fodder because they can't afford to feed it to the
livestock.

I'm not sure that I totally agree with that, Doug. Yes, eating
low-carb can be expensive, but it doesn't really have to be, if the
respective governments would get out of the way. What were once
subsistence farmers (and doing rather well) are now often forced to
move to the cities (to make a living) and live off the government or
international aide. That's not by accident either, because government
wants its citizens dependent on the them for their existence. What
better way could a government want as a way to control its people?

There's already no good reason for anyone on this planet to ever
starve, if governments would just stay out of the way. I'd worry more
about the damage done by too much food than by too little.


--
Dogman