Question from Noob

Hello,


I have reading a few different things online and have two questions.


1. To get the carbs for the food product you take the carbs and deduct
the fiber is that correct?


2. For a normal everyday item what products should I be looking.
Meaning products under 10 carbs per serving or what is the number I
should be looking for to be lower in order to buy it?


Any help would be appreciated.

If anyone can recommend a good book on low carb stuff that would be
great too!


Thanks!


John

John a écrit :
Hello,


I have reading a few different things online and have two questions.

Hi john,
you might want to read the FAQ of LCing, posted every week (if I'm not
mistaken).

Huey

Thanks Susan for the info.

On Apr 4, 2:48*pm, John wrote:
Thanks Susan for the info.


I'd recommend Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution. It's widely available
in paperback for a few bucks.

10g carbs per serving is not what most of us here would consider LC.
At that rate, you could be at 100+g a day easily.

And yes, you deduct fiber from the total, at least in the USA.

"Susan" wrote in message
...


Most of us don't eat products, we buy fresh foods, meat,
dairy, fish, produce.

Susan


Great sentiment, mind if I plagerize it in my sig?

Joseph


--

"Endeavor to Persevere" Outlaw Josey Wales.

John writes:

1. To get the carbs for the food product you take the carbs and deduct
the fiber is that correct?

Yes, in the US, usually. In Europe, my understanding is that they
usually deduct the fiber for you; but in the US, they usually don't.

Deducting the fiber gives you "net carbs." Whether you want to count
carbs or net carbs is up to you and the plan you use. Eades and Atkins
go by net carbs; Schwarzbein uses total carbs.

2. For a normal everyday item what products should I be looking.
Meaning products under 10 carbs per serving or what is the number I
should be looking for to be lower in order to buy it?

Depends on your plan. On Atkins, you start out at 20 a day, so
10/serving of anything would be too much, unless you split a serving in
half and have it at two meals along with something like meat. On Eades,
you start at a maximum of 30 a day, so 10/meal would be fine, as long as
that serving is all the carbs you have in that meal. On Schwarzbein,
you might start anywhere between 90-150 (including fiber), so 10/serving
would probably fit, but the particular food might not be on her allowed
list.

So you really need to pick a plan, so you have some guidelines to start
with. "Low-carb" can mean a lot of things. To mix and match allowed
foods and carb limits and ideas from different plans, you really need to
know what you're doing. (And even then it's tricky.)

If anyone can recommend a good book on low carb stuff that would be
great too!

"Protein Power Life Plan," by Drs. Eades. Used copies are generally
available from Amazon for basically the price of shipping. The original
"Protein Power" is very good too, but I think PPLP is better.

"The Schwarzbein Principle," by Dr. Diana Schwarzbein. I don't agree
with her on everything, but she does a nice job of explaining insulin
resistance in layman's terms.

"Good Calories, Bad Calories," by Gary Taubes. Not a how-to diet book
at all, but it'll give you the science and history to back up the plans
like PPLP. It's a good source of encouragement when the mainstream
blather about fat wears you down.

If you're at all diabetic, "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution," is good
for those specifics. He also has a book that's specifically about the
low-carb diet he recommends, but I haven't read that one.



--
Aaron -- 285/253/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

" wrote:

This is the first time that I've heard 1/2 of fiber is metabolized.
What is that based on?

Susan already cited MacDonald on that estimate. I thought
soluble fiber counted as roughly half but insoluble fiber is
entirely indigestible to human enzymes and intestinal
bacteria so no calories at all from it. So if you know how
much is soluble and how much isn't only deduct the soluble.

If so, why shouldn't everyone only deduct half?

Protein Power suggests deducting fiber and folks on that plan
do great. Therefore deducting all fiber works great. Sure, it's
less accurate for exact carb counts, but in the end it means
eating more veggies. Not like eating extra brocolli is a bad
thing.

So I think fiber deduction is there because it's easier than
figuring out types of fiber and percentages by type. And it
leads to eating extra veggies early on but folks who eventually
fine tune their portions end up with different counts but the
same actual portions in the long run. And it makes other
plans similar to the successful PP plan. All good stuff.

One caveat to John - Some packages pre-deduct fiber others
don't. Do some arithmatic with the calorie count to see which.
Try not to double deduct when a label happens to already do
it for you.

On Apr 8, 4:42*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
" wrote:

This is the first time that I've heard 1/2 of fiber is metabolized.
What is that based on?

Susan already cited MacDonald on that estimate. *I thought
soluble fiber counted as roughly half but insoluble fiber is
entirely indigestible to human enzymes and intestinal
bacteria so no calories at all from it. *So if you know how
much is soluble and how much isn't only deduct the soluble.

The follow up question is besides simply stating it, what exactly did
MacDonald base this on? Is there any scientific study or agreement
behind this? Clearly the vast majority of others in the dietary
field agree that subtracting all the fiber is appropriate because it's
not metabolized. Routinely that question is asked, and up until now,
the answer AFAIK, has always been to subtract all the fiber from the
carb count,





If so, why shouldn't everyone only deduct half?

Protein Power suggests deducting fiber and folks on that plan
do great. *Therefore deducting all fiber works great. *Sure, it's
less accurate for exact carb counts, but in the end it means
eating more veggies. *Not like eating extra brocolli is a bad
thing.

So I think fiber deduction is there because it's easier than
figuring out types of fiber and percentages by type. *And it
leads to eating extra veggies early on but folks who eventually
fine tune their portions end up with different counts but the
same actual portions in the long run. *And it makes other
plans similar to the successful PP plan. *All good stuff.

One caveat to John - Some packages pre-deduct fiber others
don't. *Do some arithmatic with the calorie count to see which.
Try not to double deduct when a label happens to already do
it for you.

" wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
" wrote:

This is the first time that I've heard 1/2 of fiber is metabolized.
What is that based on?

Susan already cited MacDonald on that estimate. *I thought
soluble fiber counted as roughly half but insoluble fiber is
entirely indigestible to human enzymes and intestinal
bacteria so no calories at all from it. *So if you know how
much is soluble and how much isn't only deduct the soluble.

Also note that going through the older Atkins books and
looking for inconsistancies in carb counts in his lists it
appears that early on he deducted insoluble fiber from
the start. Why he added fiber deduction in 2002 is open
to speculation and I have been clear on why I think he
did it - Compete with PP plus make it easier plus add
more veggies to Induction.

The follow up question is besides simply stating it, what exactly did
MacDonald base this on? *Is there any scientific study or agreement
behind this? * *Clearly the vast majority of others in the dietary
field agree that subtracting all the fiber is appropriate because it's
not metabolized. *Routinely that question is asked, and up until now,
the answer AFAIK, has always been to subtract all the fiber from the
carb count,

Neither type of fiber is digested by human digestive
enzymes. I think this is why both types are deducted.
Insoluble fiber is not digested by human intestinal
bacteria. Soluble fiber is digested by human intestinal
bacteria. The experiment to confirm this is simple -
Eat a day with lots of insoluble fiber from psylium
husk and see if you get gas. Eat a day with lots of
soluble fiber from beans and see if you get gas.

The questions become how much of the soluble fiber
digested by intestinal bacteria gets absorbed by us and
what percentage of fiber in your diet is soluble not
insoluble. The answer to both has to be wildly variable.
It's possible to use CCLL knowledge and thus control
of ketonuria to design an experiment to find out for sure,
but it's sure easier to deduct fiber and be done with it.

On Apr 9, 11:20*am, Doug Freyburger wrote:
" wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:
" wrote:

This is the first time that I've heard 1/2 of fiber is metabolized.
What is that based on?

Susan already cited MacDonald on that estimate. *I thought
soluble fiber counted as roughly half but insoluble fiber is
entirely indigestible to human enzymes and intestinal
bacteria so no calories at all from it. *So if you know how
much is soluble and how much isn't only deduct the soluble.

Also note that going through the older Atkins books and
looking for inconsistancies in carb counts in his lists it
appears that early on he deducted insoluble fiber from
the start. *Why he added fiber deduction in 2002 is open
to speculation and I have been clear on why I think he
did it - Compete with PP plus make it easier plus add
more veggies to Induction.


The follow up question is besides simply stating it, what exactly did
MacDonald base this on? *Is there any scientific study or agreement
behind this? * *Clearly the vast majority of others in the dietary
field agree that subtracting all the fiber is appropriate because it's
not metabolized. *Routinely that question is asked, and up until now,
the answer AFAIK, has always been to subtract all the fiber from the
carb count,

Neither type of fiber is digested by human digestive
enzymes. *I think this is why both types are deducted.
Insoluble fiber is not digested by human intestinal
bacteria. *Soluble fiber is digested by human intestinal
bacteria. *The experiment to confirm this is simple -
Eat a day with lots of insoluble fiber from psylium
husk and see if you get gas. *Eat a day with lots of
soluble fiber from beans and see if you get gas.

The questions become how much of the soluble fiber
digested by intestinal bacteria gets absorbed by us and
what percentage of fiber in your diet is soluble not
insoluble. *The answer to both has to be wildly variable.
It's possible to use CCLL knowledge and thus control
of ketonuria to design an experiment to find out for *sure,
but it's sure easier to deduct fiber and be done with it.

It would seem to me the question is not how much of the fermented
products of soluble fiber get absorbed, but rather if they in anyway
act like carbs. As far as I can tell, the products of the
fermentation are gas and short chain fatty acids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_fiber

It's the short chain fatty acids that then get absorbed. These are
not carbs and if you believe the research, actually very beneficial.
On the above reference, it even states that these short chain fatty
acids help stablilze blood sugar levels, by acting on the pancreas and
liver. In short, I still don't see the basis for not deducting all
fiber. And I'd like to see a credible reference and the logic behind
it.