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#101
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"Doug Freese" wrote in message ... "MU" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:42:00 GMT, Doug Freese wrote: Donovan, this is cross posted to low carb folks. To agree with us is tantamount to their diet is crock of ****. Save you energy, the LC folks are like those still believing in the flat earth theory. What exactly do you find so distasteful and invalid about low carb dieting? Be specific. Frankly it's a fad built on half truths to make money. Yes you lose weight but you can lose weight with any eating regimen that restricts calories. LC makes much about GI and GL as it's base which is smoke mirrors. Exercise, eat balanced, avoid simple carbs like candy etc. use some caloric control and you will lose weight. My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me it is not healthy. (removing asdlc x-post out of courtesy to asd folks who are sick of those x-posts) Hang around ASD long enough and you'll find plenty of other annoyances from the who calls himself ignoramus (and then gets upset when people agree that's an appropriate name). He's been preaching LC forever now but only doing it for a few months and doing a lot of crossposting between the ASD and ASDLC groups which is mostly annoying to the ASD folks. There are certainly valid medical reasons for low carbing. Those people should probably take up a different hobby besides distance running or other *endurance* sports. I initially thought I had to low carb due to insulin resistance, but it turned out to be bull***t. All I had to do was change the type of carbs and I do fine. I'm finding that now that my carbs are back up to at least 120 a day I'm able to run again. Jenn not low carbing, just healthy carbing - and quite capable of reading asdlc if I want LC info... |
#102
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"Doug Freese" wrote in message ... "MU" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:42:00 GMT, Doug Freese wrote: Donovan, this is cross posted to low carb folks. To agree with us is tantamount to their diet is crock of ****. Save you energy, the LC folks are like those still believing in the flat earth theory. What exactly do you find so distasteful and invalid about low carb dieting? Be specific. Frankly it's a fad built on half truths to make money. Yes you lose weight but you can lose weight with any eating regimen that restricts calories. LC makes much about GI and GL as it's base which is smoke mirrors. Exercise, eat balanced, avoid simple carbs like candy etc. use some caloric control and you will lose weight. My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me it is not healthy. (removing asdlc x-post out of courtesy to asd folks who are sick of those x-posts) Hang around ASD long enough and you'll find plenty of other annoyances from the who calls himself ignoramus (and then gets upset when people agree that's an appropriate name). He's been preaching LC forever now but only doing it for a few months and doing a lot of crossposting between the ASD and ASDLC groups which is mostly annoying to the ASD folks. There are certainly valid medical reasons for low carbing. Those people should probably take up a different hobby besides distance running or other *endurance* sports. I initially thought I had to low carb due to insulin resistance, but it turned out to be bull***t. All I had to do was change the type of carbs and I do fine. I'm finding that now that my carbs are back up to at least 120 a day I'm able to run again. Jenn not low carbing, just healthy carbing - and quite capable of reading asdlc if I want LC info... |
#103
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Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote: On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474 wrote: In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ... In article , PlacidBull wrote: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html thanks, good article and in line with my experience. The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is I used to need glycogen to run also! You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts. Exactly. I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely tired. I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run. I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired. Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs were "as good as new". Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90 minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body adapting I certainly can now. And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to running. Again, I ran at low intensity. That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the kindling. Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all. I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong. What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider anything? Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen, particulary, I would think, for larger runners. If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all individuals. Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt to keep stores of it available. - Tony |
#104
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Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ...
In article , jt wrote: On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474 wrote: In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ... In article , PlacidBull wrote: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html thanks, good article and in line with my experience. The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is I used to need glycogen to run also! You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts. Exactly. I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely tired. I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run. I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired. Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs were "as good as new". Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90 minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body adapting I certainly can now. And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to running. Again, I ran at low intensity. That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the kindling. Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all. I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong. What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider anything? Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen, particulary, I would think, for larger runners. If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all individuals. Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt to keep stores of it available. - Tony |
#105
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote: Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ... In article , jt wrote: On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474 wrote: In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ... In article , PlacidBull wrote: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html thanks, good article and in line with my experience. The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is I used to need glycogen to run also! You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts. Exactly. I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely tired. I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run. I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired. Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs were "as good as new". Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90 minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body adapting I certainly can now. And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to running. Again, I ran at low intensity. That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the kindling. Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all. I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong. What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider anything? No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but carbs is not the answer. Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious marathoners are not on a low carb diet. It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron, protein or other vitamins and minerals. Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen, particulary, I would think, for larger runners. If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all individuals. I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a slow pace does not hurt either. Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt to keep stores of it available. - Tony |
#106
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote: Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ... In article , jt wrote: On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474 wrote: In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ... In article , PlacidBull wrote: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html thanks, good article and in line with my experience. The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is I used to need glycogen to run also! You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts. Exactly. I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely tired. I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run. I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired. Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs were "as good as new". Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90 minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body adapting I certainly can now. And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to running. Again, I ran at low intensity. That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the kindling. Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all. I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong. What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider anything? No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but carbs is not the answer. Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious marathoners are not on a low carb diet. It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron, protein or other vitamins and minerals. Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen, particulary, I would think, for larger runners. If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all individuals. I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a slow pace does not hurt either. Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt to keep stores of it available. - Tony |
#107
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:03:41 GMT, "Tony"
wrote: Ignoramus7876 wrote in message ... In article , jt wrote: On 17 Sep 2004 14:15:47 GMT, Ignoramus474 wrote: In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09, Tony wrote: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ... In article , PlacidBull wrote: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html thanks, good article and in line with my experience. The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is I used to need glycogen to run also! You still do. Through training you can begin to use fat as your primary fuel source for low to moderate intensity efforts. Exactly. I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely tired. I don't know what this has to do with a low carb diet. You are not going to "bonk" or "hit the wall" after a half hour low intensity run. I did not bonk or hit the wall, I was merely tired. Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs were "as good as new". Great, I certainly did not come into running immediately going for 90 minute runs without being tired, but after training and my body adapting I certainly can now. And so can I, but I am on a diet that some consider antithetic to running. Again, I ran at low intensity. That's good if you are on a low carb diet. However even the slimmest of athletes have enough fat to burn to get them through any endurance event. If you don't have carbs though all that fat stored on your body is not going to do any good as fat is the wood and carbs are the kindling. Both fat and carbs are fuel. Fat is slow but steady fuel, carbs are fast fuel that runs out faster than fat. That's all. I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). If you say so. Your conclusions of it are wrong. What if I do run a 1/2 marathon, would it make you reconsider anything? No, simply reducing carbs in not going to increase endurance. Perhaps you have lost weight or some other factor in your diet as changed but carbs is not the answer. Simply running for 30 mins on a non-low carb diet does not explain why you were getting tired because I am willing to bet 99% plus serious marathoners are not on a low carb diet. It could be on your old diet you were not getting sufficient iron, protein or other vitamins and minerals. Your experiement of running a fairly slow 1/2 marathon on a paleo diet really means nothing. Sure you can do it. If you want to run it as fast as you personally can, then you will need both carbs and fat in both your training and your race. People have individual differences. Some may do fine while running at a moderate pace on mostly fat as fuel. For others any form of running may require more significant amounts of glycogen, particulary, I would think, for larger runners. If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all individuals. I would say if someone is very fit aerobically than obviously it will prevent them from going into an anaerobic state. Obviously going at a slow pace does not hurt either. Also, don't assume your glycogen reserves are always empty just because you eat low-carb. The body considers glycogen an emergency fuel and will attempt to keep stores of it available. - Tony |
#108
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On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote: In article , Doug Freese wrote: My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me it is not healthy. Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I will very likely go to the half marathon next week. Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to alt.support.diet.low-carb did: No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster. |
#109
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On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote: In article , Doug Freese wrote: My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me it is not healthy. Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I will very likely go to the half marathon next week. Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to alt.support.diet.low-carb did: No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster. |
#110
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On 18 Sep 2004 18:39:34 GMT, Ignoramus7876
wrote: In article , Doug Freese wrote: My real annoyance comes from ignoramus(his name, not mine) trying to do endurance running on a LC diet. It's like trying to add water to your gas tank of your car to get more miles per tank of gas. Any eating regimin that the exercising body rejects for insufficient fuel tells me it is not healthy. Doug, what I am trying to demonstrate is that my body does not reject LC as "insufficient fuel". To do it in a measurable way, I am considering running a half marathon, all the while without deviating from my "paleo diet". In fact, you guys got me so worked up that I will very likely go to the half marathon next week. Maybe one day I will run a full marathon, like one poster to alt.support.diet.low-carb did: No one is saying it can't be done. However if that same individual was not on a LC diet they would be able to run farther faster. |
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