The overweight on the overweight

Lass Chance wrote:

Dusty sez...

"I beg to differ. Obesity is caused by bending one's elbow while
there's food in the hand attached to it. Surely choice of said food
is important, but that's only a contributory issue... DustyB"

gee. Another keenly astute observation. By "bending one's elbow
while there's food in the hand", you mean, "eating"? In other words,
eating is the cause of obesity?

Now...there's some earth-shaking news. Clearly, the cure then, is to
NOT EAT?

Could you be more dense?

The REAL choice is to NOT EAT AS MUCH. Ingest fewer calories.

"choice of said food is important, but that's only a contributory
issue... "

Since NOT eating isnt really an option....the choice of food is the
ONLY important issue.

I guess you can be more dense. The choice isn't between eating and not
eating, so anything else you say is meaningless.

You can "bend your elbow" all day long if what's on your fork is
salad greens with no dressing...OR you can "bend your elbow" once a
day at a fast food joint and gain weight.

It isnt about the elbow bending. It's about what's on the fork.

LOL I bet you think that two pounds of food is about the right amount.

Pastorio

Nicky wrote:

"Dusty Bleher" wrote

"Nicky" wrote

"Dusty Bleher" wrote

"Lass Chance" wrote

FYI, obese folks arent the reason for obese kids. McDonalds is.

I beg to differ. Obesity is caused by bending one's elbow while there's
food in the hand attached to it. Surely choice of said food is
important, but that's only a contributory issue...

Hypothyroidism. PCOS. Impaired glucose tolerance. Diabetes. Depression.

FWIW; "PCOS. Impaired glucose tolerance. Diabetes. And depression," all
have the same roots. Too much sugar!

All of them have a genetic predisposition. Plus the chance of developing
them through disease or medication.

Not likely that people will develop "a genetic predisposition" from
disease or meds. And where does that "All of them have a genetic
predisposition" business come from? People suffering depression have a
genetic predisposition to obesity? C'mon...

Physical impairment. SAD. I'm sure there's many more.

True. But look around you. How many of those you see fall victim to
those kinds of maladies? All of 'em? I. Don't. Think. So! A few
percent of the population I'd say.

Well, it's currently pushing 1 in 10 in the US for diabetes/IGT, to rise to
1 in 4 by 2030.

None of these conditions force people to consume more calories than they
burn. Admittedly, it may make for a more difficult time for some than
for those unaffected, but it's still the laws of physics in action. And
diabetics would all do well to control their intake of carbs and keep
their weight down. As would all of us.

Pastorio

"Dusty Bleher" wrote in message
...

T1's *do* have a genetic cause...but T2 is almost always caused by
eating/lifestyle habits. While the T1 folks can only deal with their
maladies, the T2 folks caused an entirely preventable malady.

No, it's often the other way around - T1s can have a genetic predisposition,
but it's also quite common for it to be sparked off by a virus, or just
something unknown. T2s, OTOH, usually have a genetic disposition (unless
it's caused by taking predisone, or similar). Getting fat doesn't help - but
it's often a vicious circle, as excess insulin causes fat deposits. There
are plenty of obese people out there who will never become diabetic, because
they don't have the genes for it.
http://www.behavioraldiabetes.org/po...ochure_05.html
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/mod...ticle&sid=2771
http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/11/30-539187.html

In my own family, my half-brother and I are the only people diagnosed with
diabetes - until you start wondering about the relatives who died of heart
attacks and strokes in their 50s and 60s. My endocrinologist gave me 4 ticks
for family history on that evidence alone. Interestingly, it's my mother's
family who die young, and my brother and I share our father - so there must
be a predisposition there, too. We're the first generation not to earn our
living through manual labour on that side, so that's why it's popped up in
our generation. My full sister appears to be clear.

That's why that guesstimate of 25% of Americans to be diabetic by 2030 is
interesting - that's the likely saturation of the genetic predisposition. I
hope the UK equivalent figures won't include my kids, though, because they
now know how to recognise the warning signs and how to deal with it. We
hadn't a clue.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/4.5/6 Weight 95/77/72Kg
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
Nicky wrote:

"Dusty Bleher" wrote
"Nicky" wrote
"Dusty Bleher" wrote

"Lass Chance" wrote
FYI, obese folks arent the reason for obese kids. McDonalds is.

I beg to differ. Obesity is caused by bending one's elbow while
there's food in the hand attached to it. Surely choice of said food
is important, but that's only a contributory issue...

Hypothyroidism. PCOS. Impaired glucose tolerance. Diabetes. Depression.

FWIW; "PCOS. Impaired glucose tolerance. Diabetes. And depression," all
have the same roots. Too much sugar!

All of them have a genetic predisposition. Plus the chance of developing
them through disease or medication.

Not likely that people will develop "a genetic predisposition" from
disease or meds. And where does that "All of them have a genetic
predisposition" business come from? People suffering depression have a
genetic predisposition to obesity? C'mon...

No, read what I said - people with depression commonly have a genetic
predisposition towards depression. And disease and/or meds can cause or
contribute to IGT, diabetes, depression at least - I don't know enough about
PCOS to say whether that's possible too.


Physical impairment. SAD. I'm sure there's many more.

True. But look around you. How many of those you see fall victim to
those kinds of maladies? All of 'em? I. Don't. Think. So! A few
percent of the population I'd say.

Well, it's currently pushing 1 in 10 in the US for diabetes/IGT, to rise
to 1 in 4 by 2030.

None of these conditions force people to consume more calories than they
burn. Admittedly, it may make for a more difficult time for some than for
those unaffected, but it's still the laws of physics in action. And
diabetics would all do well to control their intake of carbs and keep
their weight down. As would all of us.

Uh-huh. Easy-peasy, this dieting thing, isn't it - especially when you have
excess insulin (the hormone that lays down fat) by definition. Oh, and don't
help yourself with the low-carber's appetite supression - have you seen the
ADA's recommended diet recently? Every diabetes organisation in the world is
still recommending stonking carb amounts, to try and protect against heart
disease. Don't argue that with me, I think it's criminally stupid.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/4.5/6 Weight 95/77/72Kg
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

"Nicky" wrote in message
...
....
No, it's often the other way around - T1s can have a genetic
predisposition,

but it's also quite common for it to be sparked off by a virus, or just
You're gonna need to point me to some specifics on that, Nicky. Nothing
I've read (peer-reviewed, double-blind studies) supports that--and don't
send me any "opinions" as basis. T1 is genetic, period. There's nothing
"predisposition" about it. I'm willing to say I'm wrong--after I read proof
to that effect...

something unknown. T2s, OTOH, usually have a genetic disposition (unless
it's caused by taking predisone, or similar). Getting fat doesn't help -
but
AFAICT; T2 is always caused by beta cell exhaustion (albeit for a variety of
reasons). There's nothing "predisposition" about it either. You either
beat them into submission or you don't. And you beat them by ingesting
SUGARS in the form of convenient CARBOHYDRATES!

it's often a vicious circle, as excess insulin causes fat deposits. There
True enough. All the more reason to avoid carbs...

are plenty of obese people out there who will never become diabetic,
because they don't have the genes for it.
http://www.behavioraldiabetes.org/po...ochure_05.html
This seems to be little more than an, "It's not your fault" bit of pap.
Interesting, and possibly relevant, but certainly not an info piece on diet
and the causes of diabetes.

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/mod...ticle&sid=2771
This link seems to be making a soft-sell of a relationship between fats and
diabetes. Whoop-dee-doo. This isn't exactly breaking news.

http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/11/30-539187.html
I don't know where you thought this would lead. But it's nothing more than
an Atkins summary of the linkage between obesity and T2 diabetes--a very
short leap. Methinks you're clinging to too many excuse generating reports
and not enough facts. The short version is that diabetes comes in 2 general
"flavors". Genetic and induced. While we may argue about the method of
induction, the short version is that it's _usually_ caused by dietary
"errors".

In my own family, my half-brother and I are the only people diagnosed with
diabetes - until you start wondering about the relatives who died of heart
Being "diagnosed" has absolutely NOTHING to do with genetic predisposition
and everything to do with your condition on that day.

attacks and strokes in their 50s and 60s. My endocrinologist gave me 4
ticks for family history on that evidence alone. Interestingly, it's my
mother's
Not really surprising.

family who die young, and my brother and I share our father - so there
must be a predisposition there, too. We're the first generation not to
earn our living through manual labour on that side, so that's why it's
popped up in our generation. My full sister appears to be clear.
Interesting. My heart goes out to you and your brother. You did nothing to
deserve this fate, yet you're as surely afflicted as if you chose this
route. Please, please do us all a favor and keep to your dietary and
medical guidelines as instructed.

That's why that guesstimate of 25% of Americans to be diabetic by 2030 is
interesting - that's the likely saturation of the genetic predisposition.
I
Ummm, I hope you'll forgive me, but absent some relevant conclusions based
upon openly collected data, I don't buy into that projection.

hope the UK equivalent figures won't include my kids, though, because they
now know how to recognize the warning signs and how to deal with it. We
hadn't a clue.
Yes. Sad but true.

My best regards to you and all members of your family.


DustyB
....

"Dusty Bleher" wrote in message
...
"Nicky" wrote in message
...
...
No, it's often the other way around - T1s can have a genetic
predisposition,

but it's also quite common for it to be sparked off by a virus, or just
You're gonna need to point me to some specifics on that, Nicky. Nothing
I've read (peer-reviewed, double-blind studies) supports that--and don't
send me any "opinions" as basis. T1 is genetic, period. There's nothing
"predisposition" about it. I'm willing to say I'm wrong--after I read
proof to that effect...

Go and ask some of the T1s on alt.support.diabetes.

something unknown. T2s, OTOH, usually have a genetic disposition (unless
it's caused by taking predisone, or similar). Getting fat doesn't help -
but
AFAICT; T2 is always caused by beta cell exhaustion (albeit for a variety
of reasons).

Somewhat chicken-and-egg... inflammation causes beta cell aptosis faster
than a T2 can regenerate them, causing T2 diabetes, which cases
inflammation... Bring on the new exanitide drugs, which kill that cycle and
may "cure" T2 diabetes.

Being "diagnosed" has absolutely NOTHING to do with genetic predisposition
and everything to do with your condition on that day.

In my family, living long enough to be diagnosed has a strong genetic
predisposition.

Suggest you sub to Medscape for their endocrinologists' newsletter, if you
have more than a casual interest in the subject.

My best regards to you and all members of your family.

Thankyou.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/4.5/6 Weight 95/77/72Kg
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

In article ,
(Lass Chance) wrote:


That Americans NEED quick, affordable food is not the question. The
question is, WHY cant they sell us HEALTHY fast food?


"They" (fast food restaurants) sell what people want to buy. If enough
people want to buy low carb fast food meals, they will sell them. Heck,
if enough people wanted to buy tree bark and moss to eat, McDonalds
would make it a combo meal.

--
---
Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com

In article ,
"Bob (this one)" wrote:

So how did you get fat? Could all this raving be a way for you to slip
out of the blame for your porkitude? It wasn't really your fault, you
were brainwashed by the Evil Calorie Empire that clouded your mind
bring sinister music up woooo woo-oo-oo...

Now bring in the lawers to sue food manufacturers, much as they shook
down the tobacco industry.

--
---
Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com

der Konehead asks...
"Does WebTV come with a button that
says 'POST SOMETHING REALLY
DUMB?' -- MFW"

no, it doesnt. But it does have a button that says, "IGNORE IDIOTS".
Which I'll be hitting, from now on, when your name comes up.

It's a handy button. Not only will it keep me from wasting time reading
your sad attempts to 'troll", it also makes a cool flushing sound.

SPLOOOOSH!
adios, little turd!

LassChance


Start LC~5-16-05
202-195-165
(i only weigh on Sunday)

Chris Smolinski wrote:
In article ,
"Bob (this one)" wrote:


So how did you get fat? Could all this raving be a way for you to slip
out of the blame for your porkitude? It wasn't really your fault, you
were brainwashed by the Evil Calorie Empire that clouded your mind
bring sinister music up woooo woo-oo-oo...


Now bring in the lawers to sue food manufacturers, much as they shook
down the tobacco industry.


I don't think it will work. That research to show high calorie fat and
sugar meals are addictive is very recent. There's no way the fast food
companies knew this, mislead the public, or tried to supress the
information. So there's no basis for a lawsuit. Simply selling an
addicting substance isn't illegal.