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Benefits of ketogenic diets
On Dec 11, 3:00*pm, Susan wrote:
The problem with that argument is it boils down to most/all low carbers staying at Induction levels. *Which is yet another reason why I stress that "following the directions" includes not digging for excuses to stay on phase 1 of a 4 phase process. One doesn't need an excuse when Dr. Atkins said in his book that there's nothing wrong with staying at induction levels if one is content and all is going well. *He was right. *The "if" matters. Thank you. Doug has been lying about this for years, misrepresenting Atkins. Like you, I can read what Atkins wrote. If Doug wants to offer his alternative plan, I have no problem with it. But I do have a problem when he continues to claim that Atkins said you have to move up from induction, that you shouldn't extend it. I also have a problem when he claims that it's going to make you stall. Where is the study that shows that? crickets. Actually as you point out, Atkins was very positive towards those that wanted to stay at induction levels longer. One of the questions he posed for those considering whether to stay in induction was whether they had a lot of weight to lose. It would be mighty strange to encourage people who have more weight to lose to stay at induction level if Atkins knew they would lose more weight by going higher. In my personal experience, I've always lost the most weight when at or close to induction level. Now, who should I believe? Atkins and my scale, or Doug? |
#22
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Benefits of ketogenic diets
On Dec 11, 5:55*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
Susan wrote: Doug Freyburger wrote: ... Because low carbing has us not hungry, so it might have monkeys not hungry and, so I thought until the results of that study came out, have also resulted in longevity benefits. I have never had appetite suppression by low carb. Lessening, perhaps, but I am often hungry when I should not be. That sucks. *You're hungry when on low fat and hungry when on low carb. I think a higher pecentage of the population are not hungry while low carbing than while low fatting but I am not aware of any study done to confirm that opinion. Seriously? *You haven't seen those studies where low carbers were told to eat until satisfied and low fatters stuck to low cal and lost half the weight on 50% less calories? *Start with the Schneider Peds study.. Those studies do not report who was hungry. *They report who ate how many calories and who lost how much. I think it true but would need studies to be certain it's true. *I do know that some are constantly hungry while low carbing the way I was constantly hungry while I was low fatting. There have been studies, have you never sought them out? Where are the studies that report on hunger levels? *They are not the studies were free eating low carbers lost at first better and and later as well as calorie restricted low fatters. Before you mentioned cortisol I do not believe any major figure in the low carb field addressed the topic with any significant effort. Nope, and certainly not Dr. Atkins. *In fact, his suggestion of a fat fast for resistant dieters would allow cortisol to rise even more due to lowered insulin levels (high insulin levels lower adrenal steroid synthesis and also CBG, the cortisol transport protein). To me your interest in the topic of cortisol triggers a major advance in the understanding of low carb metabolism. *It added a deeper understanding for me when I studied the topic. One of the several arguments lodged against low carbing is that going very low effects cortisol levels and that change in cortisol levels causes irritability that drives people off low carbing. I was a jittery, sleepless, anxious mess for three weeks, but I stuck with it and adapted. Yikes. *When I went through my first Induction I was a jittery sleepless mess for a couple of day then I adjusted. The problem with that argument is it boils down to most/all low carbers staying at Induction levels. *Which is yet another reason why I stress that "following the directions" includes not digging for excuses to stay on phase 1 of a 4 phase process. One doesn't need an excuse when Dr. Atkins said in his book that there's nothing wrong with staying at induction levels if one is content and all is going well. *He was right. *The "if" matters. The "if" matters. *It's also ignored by some here who deny that anyone stalls starting about day 15 when they stay at 20. *I've seen very many people reporting that. *It happens. You know, you and you're "reporting" are just amazing. It's like you're running some real lab here and you have valid results. In actuality, the group here is pretty much dead. I don't see people reporting, tabulating anything. All you're doing is "seeing" what your eyes want to see, disregarding the rest and then calling it established fact. At the same time, you lie about what Atkins said. |
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