Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
pearl wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

It's not the job of regulars on ASDLC to read the book for others.
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is incurable. Are you ignorant or
stupid? Reading the book will cure ignorance. Go for it!

I don't think so..

Gotcha, troll.

1. It's not me that's been 'got'.

2. I'm not a troll.

'troll - An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup
or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer.
Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a
discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos
by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it.
Also, the person who posts such messages.'
www.walthowe.com/glossary/t.html

2a. My message was posted in order to inform, not to
cause outrage, harrass, nor bait people to answer.

2b. If you still think I'm a troll, ignore me, as I will you.

You have chosen stupid over ignorant. Thanks for that.

Back to your PETA warrens, please.

"Barbara Hirsch" wrote in message ...
On 26 Mar 2004 12:30:11 -0800, (Doug Freyburger)
wrote:

Gotcha, troll. You have chosen stupid over ignorant. Thanks for that.
Back to your PETA warrens, please.

I see the pearl troll is back.

All this (pseudo-)recognition! Must have made an impression.

I'm not a troll, Hirsch, just unpleasant in your hooded eyes.

Yes, you can gain 50 or 60 pounds in water easy when you are in
congestive heart failure.

A gain of _60 to 80 pounds of fluid_ in *nine days* -in hospital-?

Who are you trying to fool?

Have a friend who has had 175 pounds of
water flushed out twice.

I'm not Atkins doctor. I saw him within 6 months of when he died and
he was not fat then.

Ipse dixit. You've a vested interest in such dangerous non-sense, missus.



Barbara Hirsch, Publisher
OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS
The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development
http://www.obesity-news.com/

"anony344" wrote in message om...
No. "vegan" diets, if followed without the use of
supplements, invariably lead to B-12 and other
deficiencies.

not neccesarily, many meat eaters who have crohn's disease, IBS or
some other intestinal problem may lack intrinsic factor, which is a
substance released to separate b12 from protein in meat. Meat only
contains small amounts of B12 and it is bound to protein meaning it is
hard to absorb in many people.

b12 is not produced by any mammal, it is made by bacteria only. cows
have 4 stomachs and bacteria predigest their food, providing them with
massive amounts of b12.

on the contrary certain vegan foods do contain large amounts of b12,
which IS bioavailable, algae and foods fermented with bacteria contain
lots of b12, in addition these foods also contain good sources of
vitamin K, which is also important for cancer prevention

all vegans should supplement with b12, or eat fortified foods or foods
known tro contain b12

snip abstracts.. thanks, A

I'd like to run this by you, et al.;

Nature 1980 Feb 21;283(5749):781-2
Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria.
Albert MJ, Mathan VI, Baker SJ.
In man, physiological amounts of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) are
absorbed by the intrinsic factor mediated mechanism exclusively in
the ileum. Human faeces contain appreciable quantities of vitamin
B12 or vitamin B12-like material presumably produced by bacteria
in the colon, but this is unavailable to the non-coprophagic individual.
However, the human small intestine also often harbours a considerable
microflora and this is even more extensive in apparently healthy
southern Indian subjects. We now show that at least two groups
of organisms in the small bowel, Pseudomonas and Klebsiella sp.,
may synthesise significant amounts of the vitamin.
PMID: 7354869 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://tinyurl.com/80o6

From; The Bacterial Flora of Humans
...
(8) While E. coli is a consistent resident of the small intestine,
many other enteric bacteria may reside here as well, including
Klebsiella, Enterobacter and Citrobacter.
...
1. The normal flora synthesize and excrete vitamins in excess
of their own needs, which can be absorbed as nutrients by the host.
For example, enteric bacteria secrete Vitamin K and Vitamin B12,
and lactic acid bacteria produce certain B-vitamins.
http://www.bact.wisc.edu/Bact303/Bact303normalflora

(Antibiotics
Antibiotics of all classes disrupt normal bowel flora which
synthesize some B vitamins and Vitamin K; probiotic
supplementation needed.
...
Oral Contraceptives
Deplete, especially B1, B6, B12, folate.
http://www.interactionreport.org/depletion.html )!!

Organically grown plant foods contain higher quantities of nutrients,
including vitamin B12, - it is taken up from soil rich in B12, - which
may be present through application of manure (Mozafar, A. 1994.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers. Plant and Soil 167:305-311. http://tinyurl.com/6onc ),
and/or manufacture by bacteria in healthy, cobalt-replete soil.

'The B12-Cobalt Connection
...
The implication for humans subsisting on vegetarian diets are profound.
B12 synthesis by indigenous bacteria is known to occur naturally in the
human small intestine, primary site of B12 absorption. As long as gut
bacteria have cobalt and certain other nutrients, they produce B12. In
principle then, internal B12 synthesis could fulfill our needs without any
B12 provided by diet.
...
Reeter, whose lab has served agricultural industry for over 40 years,
told us: "I can say with certainty there's a decline of soil cobalt. ..
...
Reeter said soil bacteria, comprising 20 percent of soil biomass, is
destroyed or inactivated by ag chemicals, inhibiting uptake and
metabolism of cobalt and other trace elements. ..
...
The emerging nutritional crisis of B12 deficiency calls for remedial action in
the macro- as well as micro-environment. Broad-spectrum remineralization
of topsoils using crushed rock or dried seaweed from ocean areas known
to contain sufficient cobalt can reestablish mineral balances necessary for
healthy food supply able to fulfill our requirement, both direct and indirect,
for B12 . The cobalt connection is especially relevant to us growing our own
food, since cobalt-deficient areas likely are well-established. Beyond promoting
remineralization to the farm community, we can adopt the practice in our gardens.'

http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm .

From; 'The mineral content of organic food - Rutgers University USA

Trace Elements.
Parts per million
Dry matter

Vegetable: Cobalt
Snap Beans
Organic 0.26
Non-organic 0
Cabbage
Organic 0.15
Non-organic 0
Lettuce
Organic 0.19
Non-organic 0
Tomatoes
Organic 0.63
Non-organic 0
Spinach
Organic 0.25
Non-organic 0.2

http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/wh...whyorganic.htm

"jpatti" wrote in message om...
"Moosh" wrote in message . ..

Where did you see this? The local newspaper? No reputable nutritionist
has ever advocated this. They all advocate a balanced diet of
wholefoods. Well the eputable ones do.

What "balanced" means can vary tremendously depending on individuals
though.

For instance, the ADA diet is *extremely* "unbalanced" for diabetics,
yet is generally recommended by repoutable nutritionists in spite of
the fact that high blood sugars have more serious health repercussions
than any of the supposed negative effects from high dietary fat
intake.

Read this; http://www.rense.com/general45/bll.htm !

"Ignoramus27771" wrote in message ...
In article , pearl wrote:
'The Cornell-China-Oxford Project is a massive survey
of more than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan
designed to study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far
reaches of China. By investigating simultaneously more
diseases and more dietary characteristics than any other
study to date, the project has generated the most
comprehensive database in the world on the multiple causes
of disease. Much of the research behind the pyramid is based
on the China project's research findings.
..
"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that
suggests that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers,
cardiovascular disease and other chronic, degenerative
diseases until they shift their diets away from animal-based
foods to plant-based foods," Campbell said. "Evidence
suggests that eating even small amounts of animal- based
foods is linked at least for many individuals to significantly
higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases typically
found in the United States." Further, he reported last year,
merely eating some low-fat foods or complying with current
U.S. dietary recommendations is unlikely to prevent much
disease. The dietary recommendations, Campbell said, do
not go far enough in reducing the total fat content of the
diet, or, more to the point, in advocating the exchange of
foods of animal origin for foods of plant origin.

I did read their press release, and find it amusing how they attibute
low rates of cancer to a diet pyramid alone, and not to the fact that
these people eat very little due to lack of money,

'Domestic consumption of corn has grown steadily since the early
1960s due to expanding livestock and poultry production. In
2001-2002, China is forecast to consume a record 124 Mt of corn,
compared to 113 Mt in 1997-1998, increasing at an average rate
of about 2% per year.

OUTLOOK

China's dramatic increase in livestock and poultry production is
expected to result in record coarse grain demand. Over the last
two years, consumption of coarse grains has outstripped
production by about 25 Mt. The WTO agreement will help to
address any shortfall. Agreements in place for corn imports up
to 2004 will be limited by TRQ levels established by the Working
Party on China's Accession. High tariff rates applied to levels
beyond these minimum amounts will make imported corn cost
prohibitive. Over the medium-term, China is expected to shift
from a net corn exporter to a net importer which will benefit
Canada by supporting world prices.
...
Since the mid-1990s, China has been a grain self-sufficient
economy, with the net import situation never exceeding 5%
of domestic grain production. However, because of severe
land and water constraints and the sheer size of the Chinese
market, small shortfalls in coarse grain production could
translate into large future import demand. ..'
http://www.agr.gc.ca/mad-dam/e/bulle...4e/v14n22e.htm

and exercise daily.

Plus, their life expectancy is probably low enough to not permit many
people to reach age when cancers rise in occurrence.

You're wrong..

China's Life Expectancy Averages 71.8 years
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/2002...28_93017.shtml

"jpatti" wrote in message om...
"Moosh" wrote in message . ..

Why exactly? Starch is the same as sugar to the body, and many veges
have a deal of this. Where are you getting your energy requirements
from?

This thread is massively cross-posted.

When low-carbers talk about the piles of vegetables they eat, we
usually aren't referring to potatoes. Starchy vegetables are avoided
on low-carb.

Take a look at: http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm .

Energy requirements are easily fulfilled with protein and fat, carbs
are not necessary for calories. Protein can be metabolized as
glucose, so starch or sugar is not needful even for production of
glucose for blood sugar.

But the by-products from metabolising all that protein are harmful.

The reason some people consider veggies "better" than fruits is
because if you are restricting carbohydrates, you get more bang for
your buck out of cabbage than from an apple... more food and hence
more fiber and micronutrients for the same amount of carb.

Tsk..
Eating Apples and Drinking Apple Juice Today May Protect Brain
Health Tomorrow
http://www.appleproducts.org/pr18.html
Apple Components Found To Improve Asthma Risk
http://www.appleproducts.org/pr18.html
UC-Davis research with adults finds 100% apple juice, apples good
for the heart.
http://www.appleproducts.org/pr15.html
Apple phytonutrients found to provide anti-cancer and anti-oxidant
benefits.
http://www.appleproducts.org/pr14.html
A new study shows apple juice is good for bad cholesterol
http://www.appleproducts.org/pr11.html
From;
http://www.appleproducts.org/nutritn.html

This is also why berries and melon are often referred to, these are
lower carb than most fruits.

As to whether low-carb is a healthy diet, this depends on how the
individual chooses to do it. Some get virtually all their carbs from
vegetables and fruit. Others do low-carb by eating "low carb" junk
food. Obviously, there's a big difference in how healthy those diets.

There's a big difference in what form carbs are eaten- as in whole, or
refined foods.

I am personally sort of intermediate, I eat a lot of vegetables, some
fruit, but probably more dairy than I strictly need. My diet would be
improved by getting more of my carbs from veggies and fewer from
cheese and cream.

Good thinking!

Meat is good.

--
"If I can't *count* the carbs, it can't be part of a
low-carb diet." --- jpatti

"pearl" wrote in message
...

all useless information snipped

pearl wrote:

snipped

Please stop (all of you) your infernal cross-posting to sci.med.diseases.cancer
We are trying to keep track of patients and your posts are making theirs expire from our newsreaders faster.
Nobody on this newsgroup is entering (nor interested in) your exchanges.
Thank you !
J

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:29:57 +0100, "pearl"
wrote:

Ipse dixit. You've a vested interest in such dangerous non-sense, missus.

You're an ass. I write about drug development, not diets. No vested
interest whatsoever. Ploink with you. You're not worth the time.

Bye.


Barbara Hirsch, Publisher
OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS
The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development
http://www.obesity-news.com/

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:07:21 -0500, J
wrote:

Please stop (all of you) your infernal cross-posting to sci.med.diseases.cancer

Sorry, I responded before I saw your post.

My husband died of cancer 4 months ago, so if nothing else, I'm
sensitive to what you're trying to do. And no, he wasn't on the Atkins
diet.

Anyway, I've put pearl where she belongs, in my kill file.


Barbara Hirsch, Publisher
OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS
The latest in obesity research and weight loss drug development
http://www.obesity-news.com/