Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma

"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message
om...
pearl wrote:
The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:

Wow! It's a good thaing that Atkins is a vegatable-rich, moderate
protein/low carbohydrate diet, emphasizing plenty of fiber-rich
vegetables like cauliflower, broccoli and cabbage!

It is, and it does?

Yup. Veggies are mandatory from day one on.

I thought you could eat as much fat and protein
as you desired, but that vegetables and fruit were restricted?

Because you haven't even read the book. Yet you're foolish enough
to go around making pronouncements about it. Do you have any idea
how hilarious it is watching idiots who haven't even read the book
go around pontificating about it?

maybe you should do some research instead of just making assumptions.

Why don't you answer my questions in a civil manner instead of just
making assumptions?

It's not the job of regulars on ASDLC to read the book for others.
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is incurable. Are you ignorant or
stupid? Reading the book will cure ignorance. Go for it!

I don't think so..

Atkins Was Grossly Overweight And Sick
But The Media Loves The Dead Guy
The McDougall Newsletter
3-5-4

On Tuesday, February 10, 2004 the fall of the Atkins Empire
began with the publication of a medical report on Atkins' body
by the Office of Chief Medical Examiner, the City of New York.
This report was obtained legally and without deception by
Richard Flemming, MD, a cardiologist from Omaha, Nebraska.
The report was then sent to Neal Barnard, MD, of the Physicians'
Committee for Responsible Medicine. This organization gave the
report to the Wall Street Journal and they made these findings
public with an added note from the Journal that with a weight
of 258 pounds and a height of 6 feet he would be properly
classified as "obese." That week I appeared on several national
TV and radio shows, and was quoted in newspapers worldwide,
including the New York Times ñ taking the position that his
medical report was fair game because he was an icon in the
diet industry, and the lessons learned from his poor health
would save lives.

Atkins Medical Report
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/040200amr.htm

Since I am a friend of Dr. Barnard and a diametrically
opposed opponent of the Atkins philosophy, it was natural
for me to take the position that these findings are important
and should be public. They are important because the health
and appearance of this diet guru reflect the merit of his advice.
The man was grossly overweight for all of the 10 years that
I knew him and I had met with him personally on several
occasions. He looked very unhealthy to me every time we
met - and his medical reports and the history that has been
released by his organization confirm this. At the very least he
suffered from severe heart damage known as cardiomyopathy.
The Atkins organization says this was due to a virus - this is
possible, but is an extremely rare cause for this condition.
The most common reason for this severe loss of heart muscle
is coronary artery disease due to a high-fat, high-cholesterol
diet. In April of 2002 he suffered a cardiac arrest and almost
died. Information from the Atkins web site tells us that he had
coronary artery disease and suggests he recently had an
angioplasty. His history also includes congestive heart failure
and hypertension. The medical examiner's report says he had
a heart attack also - but I have no other history to confirm this.
He is reported to have died from head injuries from a fall on
the ice.

The Atkins organization denies he was grossly overweight
and claims he weighed between 180 and 195 pounds. They
say his medical records indicate he weighed 195 pounds just
before he entered the hospital at the time of his death. They
claim the additional weight, totaling 258 pounds reported by
the medical examiner, was from fluid accumulation during his
9 days of hospitalization prior to his death. That would mean
60 to 80 pounds of fluid, equal to 8 to 10 gallons of water,
would have been added to his body. Any medical doctor
who allowed this much fluid accumulation in a patient in 9
days should have his medical practices reviewed.
.... '
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdou...00puatkins.htm

"revek" wrote in message ...
The Queen of Cans and Jars burbled across the ether:
pearl wrote:

"marengo" wrote:

Wow! It's a good thaing that Atkins is a vegatable-rich, moderate
protein/low carbohydrate diet, emphasizing plenty of fiber-rich
vegetables like cauliflower, broccoli and cabbage!

It is, and it does? I thought you could eat as much fat and protein
as you desired, but that vegetables and fruit were restricted?

maybe you should do some research instead of just making assumptions.

Please. This is Pearl the Vegan, who regularly crossposts to start
flame wars.

Who's flaming?

It gives her life meaning to tell us how we are all going
to die horrible deaths and go to hell for our dietary transgressions.

Just letting you know the score.

She's not going to listen to you.

Projection.

--
revek been there done that, wasted a *lot* of time.

Nice warning-off, revek.

"Bob in CT" wrote in message news
From:
http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=222

Dietary Fat Intake and Endogenous Sex Steroid Hormone Levels in
Postmenopausal Women (Journal Abstract) Added on: 8/25/2003 Hits: 81
From Harvard University and the International Union Against Cancer
Information Services, 2000: A team of researchers from the Harvard
Department of Nutrition studied 381 postmenopausal women for 4 years. They
reviewed the association between the women's intake of dietary fat and
their levels of sex hormones, including estrogen. They found that there
was no association between dietary fat intake and elevated estrogen. In
fact, they found that the *less* dietary fat the women in the study ate,
the more likely they were to have elevated estrogen, quite to the surprise
of the researchers. They concluded that these results are "inconsistent
with the hypothesis that fat intake predisposes to breast cancer risk by
raising endogenous estrogen levels."


High Fat Diet Not Associated With Increased Estrogen in Postmenopausal
Women (Press Release) Added on: 8/25/2003 Hits: 62
From Harvard University and the International Union Against Cancer
Information Services, 2000: A team of researchers from the Harvard
Department of Nutrition studied 381 postmenopausal women for 4 years. They
reviewed the association between the women's intake of dietary fat and
their levels of sex hormones, including estrogen. They found that there
was no association between dietary fat intake and elevated estrogen. In
fact, they found that the *less* dietary fat the women in the study ate,
the more likely they were to have elevated estrogen, quite to the surprise
of the researchers. They concluded that eating less fat to avoid or treat
breast cancer is "probably isn't a useful strategy."


Meat, Fish and Egg Intake and Risk of Breast Cancer (Journal
Abstract) Added on: 5/1/2003 Hits: 225
From Harvard University and the International Journal of Cancer, 2003: A
group of researchers studied 88,647 women from the Nurses Health Study for
18 years. They noted that they found no evidence that meat consumption was
a risk factor for breast cancer. In fact, they noted that vegetarians had
a slightly increased chance of breast cancer.


Meat Consumption May Not Impact Breast Cancer Risk: New Finding
Challenges Prevailing Theory That Women Who Eat Less Meat May Lower Their
Risk of Breast Cancer (Press Release) Added on: 5/1/2003 Hits: 116
From Harvard University and the Harvard Gazette, 2003: A group of
researchers studied 88,647 women from the Nurses Health Study for 18
years. They noted that they found no evidence that meat consumption was a
risk factor for breast cancer. In fact, they noted that vegetarians had a
slightly increased chance of breast cancer.


Dietary Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load, and Breast Cancer Risk: A
Case-Control Study (Journal Abstract) Added on: 9/19/2002 Hits: 372
From the journal the Annals of Oncology, November 2001: This study was
conducted by a research team from univerities in Canada, Italy, and
France. This research studied the effects of the type and amount of
carbohydrate on over 5,000 women to assess their risk of breast cancer.
The researchers found that high glycemic diets increased the risk of
breast cancer. They concluded that there is a direct connection between
glycemic load and breast cancer risk.


Meat and Diary Food Consumption and Breast Cancer: A Pooled Analysis of
Cohort Studies (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/31/2002 Hits: 285
From Harvard and the International Journal of Epidemiology, 2002: In this
study, a team of researchers reviewed data from 8 previous studies. They
found no significant association between intake of total meat, red meat,
white meat, or dairy products with breast cancer.


An Analysis of Insulin, Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 , and Insulin-Like
Growth Factor Binding Protein-3 in Premenopausal Women With and Without
Breast Cancer (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 155
From Columbia University in New York and the American Society of Clinical
Oncology, 2001: These researchers compared a group of women with breast
cancer with a control group of women without breast cancer. They found
that the women with breast cancer had higher insulin levels.


Fasting Insulin Predicts Distant Disease Free Survival and Overall
Survival in Women with Operable Breast Cancer (Journal Abstract) Added on:
7/10/2002 Hits: 196
From The University of Toronto and the American Society of Clinical
Oncology (ASCO), 2000: These Canadian researchers found that fasting
insulin levels predict survival for women with breast cancer. High levels
of insulin put women at significantly higher risk of recurrence and death
from breast cancer despite standard therapy. The authors state that
insulin prompts breast cancer cells to grow. They also found that higher
fasting insulin levels was related to obesity.


Association of Dietary Intake of Fat and Fatty Acids With Risk of Breast
Cancer (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 147
From Harvard University and The Journal of The American Medical
Association, 1999: A Harvard team studied the risk factors associated with
breast cancer and concluded, "We found no evidence that lower intake of
total fat or specific major types of fat was associated with a decreased
risk of breast cancer".


Cohort Studies of Fat Intake and the Risk of Breast Cancer - A Pooled
Analysis (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 130
From Harvard University and The New England Journal of Medicine, 1996: A
team from Harvard Medical School reviewed several studies and state, "We
found no evidence of a positive association between total dietary fat
intake and the risk of breast cancer. There was no reduction in risk even
among women whose energy intake from fat was less than 20 percent of total
energy intake."

From:
http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=223

Major Dietary Patterns and the Risk of Colorectal Cancer in Women
(Journal Abstract) Added on: 4/29/2003 Hits: 172
From Harvard University and the journal Archives of Internal Medicine,
2003: The researchers reviewed data from The Nurses Health Study for 12
years and found that women who ate the most sweets and desserts, refined
grains,and processed meats had a higher risk for colon cancer.


Insulin, Insulin-Like Growth Factors and Colon Cancer: A Review of the
Evidence (Journal Abstract) Added on: 7/10/2002 Hits: 246
From Harvard University and The Journal of Nutrition, 2001: This Harvard
researcher reviewed over 250 studies relating to insulin and insulin-like
growth factors and their affects on colon cancer growth. He concluded that
there is strong evidence that high carbohydrate intake and high insulin
production fosters colon cancer growth.

From:
http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=225

The Healing Power of Your Fork: A Brain Tumor Survivor's Eating Plan
(Advisory Statement) Added on: 7/11/2002 Hits: 502
From The National Brain Tumor Foundation, 2002: This national foundation
instructs brain tumor survivors to avoid sugars and other high fiber, high
glycemic foods because of the scientific evidence that sugar accelerates
tumor growth. They also warn patients to avoid low fat diets because of
evidence that selected dietary fats are beneficial in slowing tumor growth
and decreasing siezure activity. (Adobe Acrobat Reader required) If you
get an error page, go to the home page at http://www.braintumor.org and
click on the "patient info" link, click on the "publication & newsletter"
hyperlink and choose the third "fact sheet" hyperlink.


Effects of A Ketogenic Diet on Tumor Metabolism and Nutritional Status in
Pediatric Oncology Patients: Two Case Reports (Journal Abstract) Added on:
7/11/2002 Hits: 421
From The Case Western Reserve University and The Journal of The American
College of Nutrition, 1995: Researchers used PET scans to study the
glucose uptake in two advanced cancer pediatric patients and found that a
ketogenic diet halted cancer progression.

There's more, but I tire of this.

One more;

Too much meat, dairy raises breast cancer risk
Maggie Fox
Reuters
Wednesday, 16 July 2003

A diet high in meat and dairy products may raise the risk
of breast cancer in young women (USDA)

Young women who eat a lot of red meat and full-fat dairy
products such as cheese appear to be raising their risk of
breast cancer, the largest study of its kind has found.

The study, published in today's issue of the Journal of the
National Cancer Institute, provides yet another incentive
for women to shun fatty foods and consume fresh fruits,
vegetables and whole grains, they argued.

"When we compared the women in the highest fat intake
group with women in lowest intake group, those with the
highest intake had a 33% greater risk of invasive breast
cancer," said Dr Eunyoung Cho of Brigham and Women's
Hospital in Boston, part of the Harvard University's
medical school.

Cho said her study was unique because it included women
who had not reached menopause. Breast cancer takes years
to develop, although it usually shows up after menopause,
and factors early in a woman's life may be important.

Women most at risk of breast cancer obtained, on average,
23% of calories from animal fat versus 12% in the lowest-risk
group. But vegetable fats, such as olive oil, did not affect a
woman's risk, she said: "We found that it was not total fat but
certain types of fat that was related to breast cancer risk."

The study of more than 90,000 women aged 26 to 46 was
taken from the Nurses' Health Study, in which volunteers
answer regular questionnaires about diet and lifestyle and
that data is analysed by researchers who track the women's
health. Over the eight years of the study, 714 women
developed invasive breast cancer.

"Overall, we observed that there was a higher risk of breast
cancer among women who ate foods rich in animal fat such
as red meat, cheese, ice cream and butter during their 20s,
30s and 40s," Cho said.

Controversial area

"In an area of breast cancer research that has yielded
often starkly different findings, we have illustrated that
there may be stronger support for lowering overall
animal fat intake, especially during a woman's early
adult life," she added.

Hydrogenated oils, hardened to be more like butter and
lard, clog arteries just like butter and lard do. Last week
the U.S. government said it would require food
manufacturers to label foods with transfats - found in
animal and hydrogenated fat.

Researchers have long noted that the rates of certain
cancers are higher in the West than in Asia. But it has
not been clear whether that is due to what people eat
(such as animal fats and dairy products) or what they
do not eat (such as soy, vegetables or other products).

Cho, an epidemiologist who studies patterns of disease
as well as a nutritionist, said it is not clear how animal
fat may cause cancer. "Fat intake in general has been
hypothesized to increase circulating hormone levels
such estrogen levels," she said.

Cooked red meat contains cancer-causing agents and
is also liked with colon cancer. Eating less meat and
full-fat dairy can also help a woman reduce her risk of
heart disease, the number one killer of both men and
women in the industrialised world, Cho said.

According to the World Health Organisation, a United
Nations agency, more than 1.2 million people will be
diagnosed with breast cancer this year. Breast cancer
kills more Australian women than any other cancer, and
about 10,000 Australian women are diagnosed with the
disease every year.

Related Stories
No good evidence for low carb diets, News in Science 10 Apr 2003
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s828781.htm
High meat diets may pose a kidney risk, News in Science 20 Mar 2003
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s810492.htm
Could the western diet cause short-sightedness? News in Science 30 Apr 2002
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s531782.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s903406.htm

For every study you can show me, I can show you another study saying
exactly the opposite.

Probably.

Studies are BS.

Can be.

"Ignoramus20562" wrote in message ...
In article , pearl wrote:
"Ignoramus20562" wrote in message
...
Why correlation is not causation:

It is not often when people eat low carb diet that is high in meat and
fat and at the same time is high in vegetables (which are obviously
good things), and at the same time relatively low in carbs and
calories.

So, studies studying general populations and their trends, are going
to miss that segment of people due to its size, and therefore are not
instructive for people like me who follow the diet Idescribed.

Like I said, I eat several pounds of vegetables per day, one apple,
plenty of meat, some fat, at the same time it is relatively low in
calorie. 50% calories from fat, 25% from carbs and 25% from protein.

A typical fat person who eats a lot of meat has a diet that could not
be farther from what I eat. Why should I be , therefore, influenced by
their health problems that have little to do with meat, as such.

Carb intake of most other people and their adiposity IS the confouding
factor that makes conclusions based on correlation unwarranted.

Improperly digested animal protein is associated with endogenous
production of active oxygen (free radicals), leading to oxidative stress
(and cancer).

so you are now starting a completely new line of thought, instead of
conceding that I am right.

That's what you did, saying that it was the risk was with high-carbs
and meat, not meat. I'm showing you one reason why it's the meat.


i

'Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid
in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous
bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with
food in the stomach, while humans have a pH 4 to 5.
http://www.b-naturals.com/win00.htm

''According to Harper's Biochemistry, the putrefaction bacteria
in the large intestine convert amino acids from undigested protein
into toxic amines or ptomaines, such as cadaverine (from lysine),
agmatine (from arginine), tyramine (from tyroseine), putrescine
(from orithine) and histamine (from histidine). And these amines
are "powerful vasopressor substances". Tryptophan undergoes a
series of reactions to form indole and methylindole (skatole), which
produces the distinctive putrefying faecal smell of a high protein diet.
The sulphur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) are
transformed into mercaptans such as ethyl and methyl mercaptan
as well as hydrogen sulphide (H2S). All these compounds are very
poisonous and unpleasant. Phosphatidylcholine, only found in meats,
breaks down into choline and the related toxic amines such as neurine. ..

.. plant protein is less digestible .. because it is found in the tough
cellulose walls of plant cells which pass through the gut undigested
if not sufficiently masticated. These proteins are not available as
soil for putrefying bacteria in the bowel. Animal protein wastes are
highly bioavailable to putrefying bowel bacteria since they have no
cellulose cell wall.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200304180...mc/protein.htm

'Because waste products such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia,
histamines, phenols and indoles are toxic, the body's defense
mechanisms try to eliminate them by releasing neutrophils (a
type of leukocyte, or white corpuscle). These neutrophils
produce active oxygen, oddball oxygen molecules that are
capable of scavenging disintegrating tissues by gathering
electrons from the molecules of toxic cells.

Problems arise, however, when too many of these active oxygen
molecules, or free radicals, are produced in the body. They are
extremely reactive and can also attach themselves to normal, healthy
cells and damage them genetically. These active oxygen radicals steal
electrons from normal, healthy biological molecules. This electron
theft by active oxygen oxidizes tissue and can cause disease.

OXODIZED TISSUE LEADS TO:

Liver - Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer

Pancreas - Pancreatitis, diabetes, cancer

Kidney - Nephritis, nephrosis, cancer

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/alkalinewater.html

"Bob in CT" wrote in message news
From:

http://www.lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/r....asp?catid=204

O Putting Meat on Our Bones (Press Release) Added on: 1/30/2004 Hits: 53
From the USDA Agricultural Research Service and the Journal of Nutrition,
2003: A team of researchers compared the effects of several weeks a
controlled high and low meat diets on calcium retention and bone mass in
15 healthy postmenopausal women for 8 weeks. They noted that while the
high meat intake group had higher renal acid secretion at the onset of the
diet, it fell signficantly with time. At the end of the study, the
researchers noted that there was no difference in bone mass or calcium
retention among the two groups. They concluded that high meat diets do not
reduce calcium retention or bone mass.

etc

'A series of studies from the Cornell-China-Oxford Project on
Nutrition, Health and Environment, by nutritional biochemist
T. Colin Campbell and his colleagues, conclude that reducing
meat intake reduces the risk of losing bone density. Osteoporosis
is a condition, usually associated with aging, in which bone density
decreases, making people susceptible to breaks and fractures.
...
Whether dairy products offer protection from osteoporosis,
however, is still undetermined, according to the researchers.
If dairy products are consumed in a diet high in animal protein,
any potential benefit for increased bone density would be
undermined. That's because animal protein, including that
from dairy products, may leach more calcium from the bones
than is ingested, said Campbell, professor of nutritional
biochemistry at Cornell and director of the
Cornell-China-Oxford Project, the most comprehensive
project on diet and disease ever conducted.

"This phenomenon could explain why Americans, who ingest
much higher levels of calcium, have much higher rates of
osteoporosis and hip fractures compared with many Chinese
and other Asians who consume few dairy products and ingest
low amounts of calcium," Campbell said. Hip fractures in the
United States, for example, are approximately five times more
frequent than in China.
...'
http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicl...eoporosis.html

"Luna" wrote in message
...
In article , "pearl"
wrote:

"Luna" wrote in message
...
In article , "pearl"
wrote:


Cancer-Fighting Foods

Zheng's study showed that people who ate more of certain
foods tended to have a lower risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Those foods include:

Tomatoes
Broccoli
Squash
Cauliflower
Onions
Mixed lettuce salad
Leeks
Apples
Pears
Citrus fruits


Oh, neat. I eat all of these on my low-carb diet except the last 4.

So fruits *are* restricted on low-carb' diets? Atkins' diet too?

I'm not an Atkins expert, but I believe fruits are restricted on Atkins in
the beginning stages when you're trying to break the sugar addiction, and
then they're gradually added back in. I don't eat a lot of fruit simply
because I don't much like it, lol. I eat some cantaloupe about once every
few weeks, and I put lemon juice in my water sometimes, but that's about it.

FYI;

'Analyses of data from the China studies by his collaborators
and others, Campbell told the epidemiology symposium, is leading
to policy recommendations. He mentioned three:

The greater the variety of plant-based foods in the diet, the greater
the benefit. Variety insures broader coverage of known and unknown
nutrient needs.

Provided there is plant food variety, quality and quantity, a healthful
and nutritionally complete diet can be attained without animal-based
food.

The closer the food is to its native state - with minimal heating, salting
and processing - the greater will be the benefit.

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et1101/et1101s18.html

I
might eat leeks if I knew what they were, lol. Too bad spinach isn't on
the list, I eat a lot of that too.

Careful, spinach has a rather high oxalate content, but, saying that;

*article with lots of big words I don't know snipped*

Basically- high consumption of meat can cause kidney-stones.

I'm sure every single diet (by diet I mean way of eating, not temporary
restriction of calories to lose weight) has too much of some things and not
enough of others. I just try to get as much variety and as little sugar
and junk food as possible. A vegetable stir fry with shrimp, chicken, or
beef, a salad with ham, chicken, or shrimp, a piece of broiled fish or
grilled chicken with a side of brocolli or spinach - these are some of my
typical meals on a low-carb way of eating, and it's just common sense to me
that it's healthier to eat that way than my previous typical meal of Kraft
mac & cheese with chopped up hot dogs.

A good quality veg*n diet would be healthier and if it's
weight that concerns you;

J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores. In
this study the relationship between the weight/height ratio and
food consumption was evaluated in 92 ovo-lacto vegetarians
and 113 omnivores in Israel. The average weight of the
vegetarians was significantly lower than that of the omnivores
(60.8 kg vs. 69.1 kg), even though the vegetarian diet supplied
a significantly higher amount of calories than the nonvegetarian
diet (3,030.5 cal/day vs. 2,626.8 cal/day). Consumption of fat
was similar in both groups. Carbohydrate consumption was
higher in the vegetarians while protein consumption was lower.
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:51:11 -0000, pearl wrote:

"Ignoramus20562" wrote in message
...
In article , pearl wrote:
"Ignoramus20562" wrote in
message
...
Why correlation is not causation:

It is not often when people eat low carb diet that is high in meat
and
fat and at the same time is high in vegetables (which are obviously
good things), and at the same time relatively low in carbs and
calories.

So, studies studying general populations and their trends, are going
to miss that segment of people due to its size, and therefore are not
instructive for people like me who follow the diet Idescribed.

Like I said, I eat several pounds of vegetables per day, one apple,
plenty of meat, some fat, at the same time it is relatively low in
calorie. 50% calories from fat, 25% from carbs and 25% from protein.

A typical fat person who eats a lot of meat has a diet that could not
be farther from what I eat. Why should I be , therefore, influenced
by
their health problems that have little to do with meat, as such.

Carb intake of most other people and their adiposity IS the
confouding
factor that makes conclusions based on correlation unwarranted.

Improperly digested animal protein is associated with endogenous
production of active oxygen (free radicals), leading to oxidative
stress
(and cancer).

so you are now starting a completely new line of thought, instead of
conceding that I am right.

That's what you did, saying that it was the risk was with high-carbs
and meat, not meat. I'm showing you one reason why it's the meat.

OK, let's say that A and B are two conditions that occur in the people
studied. A is only ever examined (B is not), and the conclusion is that A
causes something (a disease, whatever). How do they know it's A and not
B? They don't.

Now, go back and insert "meat" for "A" and "carbs" for "B." Rethink your
hypothesis.

The problem is that "meat" has been "known" to be be "bad" for some time.
Everyone believes this to be so, regardless of data that appears to throw
this "conclusion" into question.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
.net...
pearl wrote:

Diet Linked To Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma
Meat, Saturated Fat, Dairy May Raise Risk
By Daniel DeNoon
Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD
WebMD Medical News
3-24-4
..

"What we found is if a person has a higher intake of animal protein,
they will have a higher risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma," Zheng tells
Web. "And people who have a higher intake of saturated fat have
an increased risk. On the other hand, if you have higher-than-average
intake of dietary fiber -- particularly if you frequently eat vegetables
and fruits with a high fiber content -- you have a reduced risk of
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma."

The findings appear in the March 1 issue of the American Journal
of Epidemiology.

Earlier studies hinted at the same thing. Now, Zheng says, it
seems clear that a major factor in the mysterious rise of
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma is a diet high in meat, saturated fats,
dairy products, and eggs and low in fiber, fruits, and vegetables.

Diets that are moderate in meat, saturated fats, dairy
products and eggs are not linked with non-Hodgkin's
lymphoma.

'The Cornell-China-Oxford Project is a massive survey
of more than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan
designed to study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far
reaches of China. By investigating simultaneously more
diseases and more dietary characteristics than any other
study to date, the project has generated the most
comprehensive database in the world on the multiple causes
of disease. Much of the research behind the pyramid is based
on the China project's research findings.
...
"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that
suggests that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers,
cardiovascular disease and other chronic, degenerative
diseases until they shift their diets away from animal-based
foods to plant-based foods," Campbell said. "Evidence
suggests that eating even small amounts of animal- based
foods is linked at least for many individuals to significantly
higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases typically
found in the United States." Further, he reported last year,
merely eating some low-fat foods or complying with current
U.S. dietary recommendations is unlikely to prevent much
disease. The dietary recommendations, Campbell said, do
not go far enough in reducing the total fat content of the
diet, or, more to the point, in advocating the exchange of
foods of animal origin for foods of plant origin.
...
"The nutrient composition of the traditional rural Asian diet
is very similar to the Mediterranean diet in that both are
largely plant-based and both pyramids recommend that
meat be consumed no more than once a month or more
often in very small amounts," said T. Colin Campbell,
Cornell professor of nutritional biochemistry, co-chair of
the conference and director of the Cornell-China-Oxford
Project. "However, the Asian diet, which is significantly
lower in total fat, may prove to be an even more healthful
diet," he added. '
http://www.news.cornell.edu/general/...ramid.ssl.html

"vegan" diets are linked with B-12 deficiency.

Cobalt and B12 deficient soil, and the use of antibiotics is.
(Livestock are supplemented with cobalt and/or given B12).

Are You Vitamin B12 Deficient?

' Nearly two-fifths of the U.S. population may be flirting with
marginal vitamin B12 status-that is, if a careful look at nearly
3,000 men and women in the ongoing Framingham (Massachusetts)
Offspring Study is any indication. Researchers found that 39
percent of the volunteers have plasma B12 levels in the "low
normal" range-below 258 picomoles per liter (pmol/L).

While this is well above the currently accepted deficiency level
of 148 pmol/L, some people exhibit neurological symptoms at the
upper level of the deficiency range, explains study leader Katherine
L. Tucker. She is a nutritional epidemiologist at the Jean Mayer
USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University
in Boston.

"I think there's a lot of undetected vitamin B12 deficiency out there,"
says Tucker. She noted that nearly 9 percent of the study population
fell below the current deficiency level. And more than 16 percent fell
below 185 pmol/L. "Many people may be deficient at this level," she
says. "There is some question as to what the clinical cutoff for deficiency
should be."

Deficiency can cause a type of anemia marked by fewer but larger
red blood cells. It can also cause walking and balance disturbances,
a loss of vibration sensation, confusion, and, in advanced cases, dementia.
The body requires B12 to make the protective coating surrounding
the nerves. So inadequate B12 can expose nerves to damage.

Tucker and colleagues wanted to get a sense of B12 levels spanning
the adult population because most previous studies have focused on
the elderly. That age group was thought to be at higher risk for deficiency.
The researchers also expected to find some connection between dietary
intake and plasma levels, even though other studies found no association.
Some of the results were surprising. The youngest group-the 26 to 49
year olds-had about the same B12 status as the oldest group-65 and
up. "We thought that low concentrations of B12 would increase with age,"
says Tucker. "But we saw a high prevalence of low B12 even among the
youngest group."

The good news is that for many people, eating more fortified cereals
and dairy products can improve B12 status almost as much as taking
supplements containing the vitamin. Supplement use dropped the
percentage of volunteers in the danger zone (plasma B12 below 185
pmol/L) from 20 percent to 8. Eating fortified cereals five or more times
a week or being among the highest third for dairy intake reduced, by
nearly half, the percentage of volunteers in that zone-from 23 and 24
percent, respectively, to 12 and 13 percent.

The researchers found no association between plasma B12 and meat,
poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12
in the diet. "It's not because people aren't eating enough meat," Tucker
says. "The vitamin isn't getting absorbed." The vitamin is tightly bound to
proteins in meat and dairy products and requires high acidity to cut it
loose. As we age, we lose the acid-secreting cells in the stomach. But
what causes poor absorption in younger adults? Tucker speculates that
the high use of antacids may contribute. But why absorption from dairy
products appears to be better than from meats is a question that needs
more research. Fortified cereals are a different story. She says the vitamin
is sprayed on during processing and is "more like what we get in supplements."

-By Judy McBride, Agricultural Research Service Information Staff.
This research is part of Human Nutrition, an ARS National Program
(#107) described on the World Wide Web. Katherine L. Tucker is at
the Jean Mayer USDA-ARS Human Nutrition Research Center on
Aging at Tufts University, 711 Washington St., Boston, MA 02111;
phone (617) 556-3351, fax (617) 556-3344.
"Are You Vitamin B12 Deficient?" was published in the August 2000
issue of Agricultural Research magazine.

"usual suspect" wrote in message ...
Jonathan Ball wrote:
..
"vegan" diets are linked with B-12 deficiency.

And iron deficiency, zinc deficiency, etc.

Common in the general population.

The Baer report (Rutgers Univ., 1984) "Variations in Mineral
Contents of Vegetables"
Percentage of | Quantities per 100 Grams | Trace Elements. Parts per million
Dry Weight Dry Weight Dry matter

Vegetable: Mineral Ash | Calcium Magnesium | Boron Manganese Iron Copper Cobalt
Snap Beans
Organic 10.45 40.5 60 73 60 227 69 0.26
Non-organic 4.04 15.5 14.8 10 2 10 3 0
Cabbage
Organic 10.38 60 43.6 42 13 94 48 0.15
Non-organic 6.12 17.5 13.6 7 2 20 0.4 0
Lettuce
Organic 24.48 71 49.3 37 169 516 60 0.19
Non-organic 7.01 16 13.1 6 1 9 3 0
Tomatoes
Organic 14.2 23 59.2 36 68 1938 53 0.63
Non-organic 6.07 4.5 4.5 3 1 1 0 0
Spinach
Organic 28.56 96 203.9 88 117 1584 32 0.25
Non-organic 12.38 47.5 46.9 12 1 49 0.3 0.2

http://www.organicnutrition.co.uk/wh...whyorganic.htm

"Patricia Heil" wrote in message ...


Ignoramus20562 wrote:




I wonder how vegans could claim that their diet is "naturally fitting
human beings" if people develop critical vitamin deficiencies while on
it.

i

They also have a problem with explaining why, if vegan is natural,
humans can't manufacture all the amino acids they need from such
a diet. But they can't; they have to ingest -- I believe it's 8
-- amino acids in their diet.

'Analyses of data from the China studies by his collaborators
and others, Campbell told the epidemiology symposium, is
leading to policy recommendations. He mentioned three:

The greater the variety of plant-based foods in the diet,
the greater the benefit. Variety insures broader coverage
of known and unknown nutrient needs.

Provided there is plant food variety, quality and quantity,
a healthful and nutritionally complete diet can be attained
without animal-based food.

The closer the food is to its native state - with minimal
heating, salting and processing - the greater will be the
benefit.
...
http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et1101/et1101s18.html

They also have to explain why our
appendix is no longer a fully functional second stomach but just
a nuisance.

Since otherwise only rabbits and porcupines have an appendix,
and neither of these species are carnivorous, I don't see any
relevance. But if you are interested in anatomical, biological
and physiological adaptations, see:
http://www.iol.ie/~creature/BiologicalAdaptations.htm