Low carbing vs Weight watchers

Blue Mu_n wrote:

On 8 Oct 2003 21:05:33 GMT, (jamie)
wrote:

The old WW trick of keeping the dressing in a cup, and dipping your
fork in it before picking up salad would take care of that.

What some people will go to to insure they get all the food they think
they want and need.

So what do you do? I bet you just forget to eat. Not a care in the
world about food. Just keep the whole family on your 2Pound
POWStarvationDiet and everybody lives happily ever after.

What do you do to get the food you want and need? Nothing at all, I
expect. I bet the dinner table in your house is as dust-dry as your soul.

Pastorio

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0400, Bob Pastorio wrote:

Blue Mu_n wrote:

Not all pasta is worthless. Not all pasts is made with sugar fills.

Pastas aren't made with sugar fills. The ingredients are very clear and
very simple and are on the side of every box.

A plethora of evidence well documented and agreed on by research
groups that deal with this topic as part of their daily lives. Groups
that I seek and collect real scientific data from, not Usenet readers
who believe they somehow, magically, have acquired the science
backgrounds that would enable them to comprehend citations.

And yet, this science wizard can't seem to read the side of a spaghetti
box...

Funny how all this science he reads never makes its way to the bull****
claims and PeeWee Herman-like pronouncements he makes. Unsupported
claims, insistent half-truths and outright lies. Not a citation in a
bushel...

Oh, well. That truth thing is tough, huh...?

Pastorio



Pasta has to be one of the worst things you can eat, and this is coming
from someone who ate pasta at least once a day for many years. It has
basically no fiber, too many carbs, incomplete protein, too many calories,
and little or no nutritive value.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

On 9 Oct 2003 00:56:03 GMT, (jamie)
wrote:

You're advocating throwing away leftover salad? Nobody got fat
eating salad.

Sure do. Eat enough of anything and you will gain weight. Salad is no
exception.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:09:16 -0400, Bob Pastorio
wrote:

So what do you do?

I continue to tell you but you can't seem to get it through your thick
Italian head that...

Until you answer the questions regarding your quad bypass, your
smoking, your obesity and why, with all the information known to you,
by your own admission, you nearly killed yourself with a lousy diet,
gluttony, excesses and no exercise, you can keep your hands off your
keyboard and in your pants.

It will be the only thing you will have left to play with, Cheffie.
I'm no longer interested in your pitiful TROLLING and useless
demagoguery.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0400, Bob Pastorio
wrote:

Pastas...

Who cares? I don't.

Until you answer the questions regarding your quad bypass, your
smoking, your obesity and why, with all the information known to you,
by your own admission, you nearly killed yourself with a lousy diet,
gluttony, excesses and no exercise, you can keep your hands off your
keyboard and in your pants.

It will be the only thing you will have left to play with, Cheffie.
I'm no longer interested in your pitiful TROLLING and useless
demagoguery.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Blue Mu_n wrote in message . ..
On 7 Oct 2003 20:26:42 -0700, (Bobo Bonobo?) wrote:

What? Lo fat does what?

A lack of essential fatty acids messes up your hormones.

You said lo fat diets not lo EFA diets. My diet is high EFA, lo sat
fat, for instance.

Maybe your blood lipids are especially sensitive to saturated fats.
That's not the case with everyone.

I would hardly call pasta, etc "garbage".

Totally worthless. Empty calories.

Not all pasta is worthless. Not all pasts is made with sugar fills.

What are "sugar fills"???

High sat fat foods are garbage.

They are delicious, and my blood lipid profile is fine. Any other
reason to avoid them?

A plethora of evidence well documented and agreed on by research
groups that deal with this topic as part of their daily lives. Groups
that I seek and collect real scientific data from, not Usenet readers
who believe they somehow, magically, have acquired the science
backgrounds that would enable them to comprehend citations.

I think I have the background to read MedLine abstracts. So, what are
these "other reasons"??
Also, I notice you snipped off the rest of the above paragraph. "They
are delicious, and my blood lipid profile is fine. Any other
reason to avoid them? What? Conventional wisdom? The idiocy that
still prevails that CoffeeMate is better for you than heavy cream? or
that margarine is healthier than butter and vegetable shortening
healthier than lard?" This is from an article in a newspaper:
"People who are trying to shed pounds and eat a healthful diet may be
in for a surprise if they look closely at the food labels of some
prepared diet foods. They may contain an unhealthy ingredient: trans
fat.
Brands with trans fat in at least some of their products include Lean
Cuisine, Healthy Choice, Slim Fast, and Weight Watchers Smart Ones --
foods that are marketed as nutritionally balanced." Source:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1556/4134218.html
OK, answer THIS: "Replacement of 10% of energy from saturated by trans
fatty acids decreased serum HDL-cholesterol by 21 %" Source: Eur J Med
Res. 2003 Aug 20;8(8):355-7. Trans fatty acids, HDL-cholesterol, and
cardiovascular disease. Effects of dietary changes on vascular
reactivity.
de Roos NM, Schouten EG, Katan MB.

Weight Watchers has zero credibility since they are profitting from
pushing poison.

I exist to experience pleasure.

'Nuff said. Eat what ever you want then.

Oh, btw, want more pleasure in total?

Live longer.

I'm likely to live significantly longer than if I were still fat.

I forego certain pleasures to get the
benefits of the pleasures that come from looking good, but fortunately
I can keep my boyish figure even if I do allow myself occasional
treats. Do you resent that?

I don't know you. How could I resent you?

I still get to take enormous pleasure in food. I get to have huge
portions if I wish.

See above. The links between low food consumption and longevity are
tight.

Yes, they are, though the real longevity increases occur with calorie
levels that are aesthetically unacceptable. Look at this, from a
recent review article: "Whether prolonged CR increases life span (or
improves biomarkers of aging) in humans is unknown." Source: : Am J
Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3):361-9.
Calorie restriction and aging: review of the literature and
implications for studies in humans.
Heilbronn LK, Ravussin E.


Meanwhile, I get to enjoy big ol' porterhouse steaks, 40% cream in my
coffee, lots of cheese, and last but certainly not least BACON!
Bacon, how I love thee, with lettuce and tomatoes, or about 1/3# fried
up and crumbled into three cans of French style green beans for
breakfast. And thy grease, it addeth a delicious flavor to anything
fried in it. You get wrapped around filet mignon, the finest cut of
beef, because you are truly worthy.

Personal worth and food as the payoff, huh? Says volumes.

Hey, food, sex, booze, what do you get personal pleasure from? What
is your "payoff"??? What, looking at yourself in the mirror in the
gym while you are doing arm curls?

--Bryan 198/153/155 (who gets to eat as much bacon as he likes w/o
getting fat)

Hope your body tolerates sat fat AND nitrates equally well.

The miniscule amount of nitrites in preserved meats isn't harmful to
anyone over about 6-12 months of age. Check this out:

----------------------------------
J Food Prot. 2002 May;65(5):872-5.


Evidence that ingested nitrate and nitrite are beneficial to health.

Archer DL.

Food Science and Human Nutrition Department, University of Florida,
Gainesville 32611-0370, USA.

The literature was reviewed to determine whether ingested nitrate or
nitrite may be detrimental or beneficial to human health. Nitrate is
ingested when vegetables are consumed. Nitrite, nitrate's metabolite,
has a long history of use as a food additive, particularly in cured
meat products. Nitrite has been a valuable antibotulinal agent in
cured meats and may offer some protection from other pathogens in
these products as well. Nitrite's use in food has been clouded by
suspicions that nitrite could react with amines in the gastric acid
and form carcinogenic nitrosamines, leading to various cancers.
Nitrate's safety has also been questioned, particularly with regard to
several cancers. Recently, and for related reasons, nitrite became a
suspected developmental toxicant. A substantial body of
epidemiological evidence and evidence from chronic feeding studies
conducted by the National Toxicology Program refute the suspicions of
detrimental effects. Recent studies demonstrate that nitrite, upon its
ingestion and mixture with gastric acid, is a potent bacteriostatic
and/or bactericidal agent and that ingested nitrate is responsible for
much of the ingested nitrite. Acidified nitrite has been shown to be
bactericidal for gastrointestinal, oral, and skin pathogenic bacteria.
Although these are in vitro studies, the possibility is raised that
nitrite, in synergy with acid in the stomach, mouth, or skin, may be
an element of innate immunity.

--------------------------------------------

Lift well,

Most people don't enjoy resistance excercise. Time spent doing
something unpleasurable doesn't count towards more life.

Eat less,

Eating is fun. Time spent eating is usually more pleasurable than
time spent doing most other things, including walking fast.

Walk fast, Live long.

My great-grandmother ate lots of lard and eggs and chicken, and she
lived to be 29 days short of 100. She drank bourbon whiskey. People
told her it wasn't good for her.

--Bryan

Bob M wrote:


Pasta has to be one of the worst things you can eat, and this is coming
from someone who ate pasta at least once a day for many years. It has
basically no fiber, too many carbs, incomplete protein, too many calories,
and little or no nutritive value.

Too many carbs and too many calories for what? Part of a BALANCED diet?

Let me see... Per 100g my present typical bag of Tesco's Italian fusili
made from Durum wheat semolina (the sole ingredient, as the water has
been dried out of it) contains the following:

1500kj/354Kcal; 11.5g protein; 72g carbohydrates, of which 2.6g are
naturally occurring sugars (i.e. not added as part of the manufacturing
process, but a natural part of the wheat); 1.9g fat, of which 0.7g is
saturates; 2.7g of fibre (well, it is 'white' pasta: can't abide
wholemeal pasta - you might as well eat a cardboard box for the texture
and flavour!); a trace of salt. The packet recommend 100g of dried
pasta as a serving, but I think the WW recommended portion size of 70g
per person is adequate for our needs.

As a diet by itself, pasta WOULD be a bad thing, but then so would any
such restricted diet. It has a place as a carb provider in a properly
balanced diet, along with rice, bread, potatoes, and other complex
carbohydrates. I serve it about once a week, with a tasty sauce
containing sufficient protein and vegetable matter to provide a properly
balanced meal. I also serve potatoes, bread, rice, breakfast cereals,
oats, millet (back on the menu now I have some excellent advice), quinoa
(a complete protein in a vegetable, and useful as both complex
carbohydrate and as a meat substitute - a new one on me, so we shall see
what we think of it), sweet potatoes - oh, lots of different things,
just for the hell of it!

My dietician's advice follows our national guidelines for the broad
sweep, but is tailored to my individual needs. General advice is that
one eats between 5 & 9 portions of fruit and vegetables each day,
between 5 & 9 portions of complex carbohydrates per day, 2-3 portions of
meat, fish, or other protein food, and in addition, 2-3 portions of
dairy foods such as milk, cheese and yoghurt. In the last two
categories I am particularly advised to choose lower fat versions
whenever possible, and to avoid red meat. In the final small category
of fatty and sugary foods (mostly crisps/chips, spreading fats, oils,
cake, cookies, chocolate, and the like), I need to choose very
sparingly. Luckily, most of these foods come into the category of 'I
don't like it much anyway', so are easy to avoid - with the exception of
chocolate! It's so hard to give up chocolate, but a little is never
enough, and enough makes my liver curl. ;P

If I ate the kind of diet you seem to espouse, I'd end up as sick as the
proverbial parrot, and my DH would no doubt be a seriously ill man
rather than the healthy bloke he is. I'd end up with my gall bladder
seriously compromised by too much fat and meat, and the man would be so
hypo he'd be in a coma! Just because a particular diet seems to suit
you for the present doesn't mean it would suit other people, nor that
their choices are bad. Take a step back and look at the bigger pictu
different circumstances need different answers. People with different
physical types need subtly different diets. Some will need a higher
proportion of protein to be at their best, and some will need a higher
proportion of complex carbohydrates. People in sedentary jobs and/or
lifestyles need fewer carbs than those who are physically more active.
There is no one right way.

--
Kate XXXXXX (On a high fibre diet - I just bought loads of fabric!)
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Every now and again you see living proof as to why siblings shouldn't be
allowed to breed....



"Bob M" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:06:27 -0400, Bob Pastorio
wrote:

Blue Mu_n wrote:

Not all pasta is worthless. Not all pasts is made with sugar fills.

Pastas aren't made with sugar fills. The ingredients are very clear and
very simple and are on the side of every box.

A plethora of evidence well documented and agreed on by research
groups that deal with this topic as part of their daily lives. Groups
that I seek and collect real scientific data from, not Usenet readers
who believe they somehow, magically, have acquired the science
backgrounds that would enable them to comprehend citations.

And yet, this science wizard can't seem to read the side of a spaghetti
box...

Funny how all this science he reads never makes its way to the bull****
claims and PeeWee Herman-like pronouncements he makes. Unsupported
claims, insistent half-truths and outright lies. Not a citation in a
bushel...

Oh, well. That truth thing is tough, huh...?

Pastorio



Pasta has to be one of the worst things you can eat, and this is coming
from someone who ate pasta at least once a day for many years. It has
basically no fiber, too many carbs, incomplete protein, too many calories,
and little or no nutritive value.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

On 9 Oct 2003 16:51:53 -0700, (Bobo Bonobo?) wrote:

You said lo fat diets not lo EFA diets. My diet is high EFA, lo sat
fat, for instance.

Maybe your blood lipids are especially sensitive to saturated fats.
That's not the case with everyone.

The research is clear on sat fats. Increasing your intake is a call
for accelerated arterial damage.

I would hardly call pasta, etc "garbage".

Totally worthless. Empty calories.

Not all pasta is worthless. Not all pasts is made with sugar fills.

What are "sugar fills"???

High sat fat foods are garbage.

They are delicious, and my blood lipid profile is fine. Any other
reason to avoid them?

A plethora of evidence well documented and agreed on by research
groups that deal with this topic as part of their daily lives. Groups
that I seek and collect real scientific data from, not Usenet readers
who believe they somehow, magically, have acquired the science
backgrounds that would enable them to comprehend citations.

I think I have the background to read MedLine abstracts.

Abstracts are not citations. They are the Reader's Digest version of
science. Anyone can read one.

Weight Watchers has zero credibility since they are profitting from
pushing poison.

That's a crock. Wold you say the same about Atkins and his terrible
food line?

See above. The links between low food consumption and longevity are
tight.

Yes, they are, though the real longevity increases occur with calorie
levels that are aesthetically unacceptable.

What? What? You mean you think that you must look like a waif? Get
serious...or maybe you are.

Personal worth and food as the payoff, huh? Says volumes.

Hey, food, sex, booze, what do you get personal pleasure from? What
is your "payoff"???

Long and healthful living.

What, looking at yourself in the mirror in the
gym while you are doing arm curls?

I don't do "arm curls" and I rarely use the mirrors in my gyms or in
other gyms I am in.


Lift well,

Most people don't enjoy resistance excercise. Time spent doing
something unpleasurable doesn't count towards more life.

So, according to you, if it is not pleasurable, it is the wrong thing
to do.

I got it now.

Eat less,

Eating is fun. Time spent eating is usually more pleasurable than
time spent doing most other things, including walking fast.

I got it now.

Walk fast, Live long.

My great-grandmother ate lots of lard and eggs and chicken, and she
lived to be 29 days short of 100. She drank bourbon whiskey. People
told her it wasn't good for her.

I hear you loud and clear.

Enjoy your hedonistic life, Bryan, it may be a very short one.

Off now.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.