Trans Fats

I introduced my parents to concerns about trans fats with an email link to a
Harvard analysis. So, at dinner Sunday my dad showed me his new margarine
and pointed out that it had no trans fats. When I looked at the label I
immediately saw HYDROGENATED Soybean Oil. However, under fats, Transfats
were specifically listed as zero. The tub has over 30 servings, so I'm
guessing the tiny serving had less than .5 grams of transfat. I have read
that items less than .5 grams are listed as zero. Doing this with transfats
seems like cheating. The total fat was 5 grams per serving, so I figure
the transfats could be 10%.

Is my interpretation right? Anything hydrogenated should be a transfat. I
had read that trans fat labeling was not required until 2006. I don't buy
margarine, so I was surprised by all this.

I started to try to explain about serving sizes to my 74 year old dad, but
he is certain that there are no transfats in the tub.

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...bHighFat/links

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

Dave wrote:

I introduced my parents to concerns about trans fats with an email link to a
Harvard analysis. So, at dinner Sunday my dad showed me his new margarine
and pointed out that it had no trans fats. When I looked at the label I
immediately saw HYDROGENATED Soybean Oil. However, under fats, Transfats
were specifically listed as zero. The tub has over 30 servings, so I'm
guessing the tiny serving had less than .5 grams of transfat. I have read
that items less than .5 grams are listed as zero. Doing this with transfats
seems like cheating. The total fat was 5 grams per serving, so I figure
the transfats could be 10%.

Is my interpretation right? Anything hydrogenated should be a transfat. I
had read that trans fat labeling was not required until 2006. I don't buy
margarine, so I was surprised by all this.

I started to try to explain about serving sizes to my 74 year old dad, but
he is certain that there are no transfats in the tub.

Note that trans fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids that have gone
through the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. Strictly
speaking only "partially hydrogenated oils" should have trans fats.
Fully hydrogenated fats/oils should have no trans fats as they have no
unsaturated fat at all. Whether the food labelling legal directives
allow some loopholes I don't know.

MattLB

Note that trans fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids that have gone
through the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. Strictly
speaking only "partially hydrogenated oils" should have trans fats.
Fully hydrogenated fats/oils should have no trans fats as they have no
unsaturated fat at all. Whether the food labelling legal directives
allow some loopholes I don't know.

MattLB


Hmmm.

If I understand you, saturated fats cannot be made in trans fats. Soybean
oil is 14% saturated fat, so I figure the other 86% is unsaturated fat.
When you say that a fully hydrogenated fat or oil would have no trans fats
because they have no unsaturated fat, you imply that our example,
hydrogenated soybean oil has no transfats. However, if the soybean oil is
86% unsaturated fat, the result of hydrogenation should produce trans fats.
No?

Your first sentence seems to say that unsaturated fatty acids can go through
the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. This seems self
contradictory. Can a house go through the painting process without getting
painted?

Either I am seriously failing to understand you, or you are yanking my
chain. The later would not be unusual on USENET.

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...bHighFat/links

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

In sci.med.nutrition Dave wrote:

However, if the soybean oil is 86% unsaturated fat, the result of
hydrogenation should produce trans fats.

Hydrogenation produces saturates, partial hydrogenation produces trans-fatty
acids.

--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

"Dave" wrote in message
. com...
I introduced my parents to concerns about trans fats with an email link to
a
Harvard analysis. So, at dinner Sunday my dad showed me his new margarine
and pointed out that it had no trans fats. When I looked at the label I
immediately saw HYDROGENATED Soybean Oil. However, under fats, Transfats
were specifically listed as zero. The tub has over 30 servings, so I'm
guessing the tiny serving had less than .5 grams of transfat. I have read
that items less than .5 grams are listed as zero. Doing this with
transfats
seems like cheating. The total fat was 5 grams per serving, so I figure
the transfats could be 10%.

Is my interpretation right? Anything hydrogenated should be a transfat.
I
had read that trans fat labeling was not required until 2006. I don't buy
margarine, so I was surprised by all this.

I started to try to explain about serving sizes to my 74 year old dad, but
he is certain that there are no transfats in the tub.

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...bHighFat/links

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/








I don't know about the exact details on this item but it's true in general
that if the amount of X in a product falls below a threshold level, the
producer is allowed to claim it's zero.

About the 2006 schedule it's amazing what the companies can pull out. Every
time the FTC comes up with something to prohibit false advertising, the
companies claim they need time to get it on the label. But it has made my
head spin how fast they have come out with labeling on carbs and transfats
even though I know it has to do with $$$$$.

Thanks Cliff,
So, if I'm getting this, saturated fat created in an oil by hydrogenation is
not considered a trans fat; and trans-fatty acids produced in an oil by
partial hydrogenation are trans fats. Am I close?

If so, the studies showing that trans fats caused more CHD than saturated
fat were studying trans-fatty acids. (?)


wrote in message
...
In sci.med.nutrition Dave
wrote:

However, if the soybean oil is 86% unsaturated fat, the result of
hydrogenation should produce trans fats.

Hydrogenation produces saturates, partial hydrogenation produces
trans-fatty
acids.

--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

The term hydrogenation stems from the chemical structure of lipids.
Every lipid molecule is simple a carbon chain with varying numbers of
hydrogen atoms attatched and varying numbers of double bonds.
"saturation" is the degree to which the maximum number of hydrogen
bonds are attatched....so unsaturated fats have fewer H atoms while
saturated fats are fully loaded with the maximum H atoms possible per
carbon atom. Saturated fat has no double bonds to the structure is
flatter and the molecules pack together....hence its solid at room
temperature. Unsaturated fats have some double bonds between carbon
atoms and so don't have the maximal amount of H atoms. This results
in a less linear structure so the lipids don't pack together as
well....thus liquid at room temperature. Mono-unsaturated fat has one
double bond while polyunsaturated can have three (the omega-3's), six
(the omega 6's) and on up.


so, trans-fat is produced commercially by forcing normally unsaturated
fats (vegetable oils) to give up some of their double bonds and accept
more H atoms. Hence the fat is now partially hydrogenated...still has
some double bonds, but less than it naturally should. Food companies
do this because the partially hydrogenated oils have different melting
points and other properties that they find desirable to make their
food last longer on the shelf.....oh and impair our health. These
trans-fats have conformations unlike naturally saturated or naturally
unsaturated fats and, as I understand it, when the body trys to
encorporate these weird shapes into membranes, etc. things don't work
as well.

Hopefully this helps, I'm going off what I remember from nutritional
biochem so some details may be less than exact, but the general gist
is right.

Cheers!
Lisa

"Dave" wrote in message .com...
Note that trans fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids that have gone
through the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. Strictly
speaking only "partially hydrogenated oils" should have trans fats.
Fully hydrogenated fats/oils should have no trans fats as they have no
unsaturated fat at all. Whether the food labelling legal directives
allow some loopholes I don't know.

MattLB


Hmmm.

If I understand you, saturated fats cannot be made in trans fats. Soybean
oil is 14% saturated fat, so I figure the other 86% is unsaturated fat.
When you say that a fully hydrogenated fat or oil would have no trans fats
because they have no unsaturated fat, you imply that our example,
hydrogenated soybean oil has no transfats. However, if the soybean oil is
86% unsaturated fat, the result of hydrogenation should produce trans fats.
No?

Your first sentence seems to say that unsaturated fatty acids can go through
the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. This seems self
contradictory. Can a house go through the painting process without getting
painted?

Either I am seriously failing to understand you, or you are yanking my
chain. The later would not be unusual on USENET.

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...bHighFat/links

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

Dave wrote:

Note that trans fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids that have gone
through the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated. Strictly
speaking only "partially hydrogenated oils" should have trans fats.
Fully hydrogenated fats/oils should have no trans fats as they have no
unsaturated fat at all. Whether the food labelling legal directives
allow some loopholes I don't know.

MattLB


Hmmm.

If I understand you, saturated fats cannot be made in trans fats. Soybean
oil is 14% saturated fat, so I figure the other 86% is unsaturated fat.
When you say that a fully hydrogenated fat or oil would have no trans fats
because they have no unsaturated fat, you imply that our example,
hydrogenated soybean oil has no transfats. However, if the soybean oil is
86% unsaturated fat, the result of hydrogenation should produce trans fats.
No?

Your first sentence seems to say that unsaturated fatty acids can go through
the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated.

That's true.

This seems self
contradictory. Can a house go through the painting process without getting
painted?

If you don't have enough paint, yes.

Either I am seriously failing to understand you, or you are yanking my
chain. The later would not be unusual on USENET.

No chain yanking, I promise.
A bit of background: Saturated fats have straight fatty acids, whereas
unsaturated fats have kinked fatty acids. This leads to saturated fat
being solid a room temperature, whereas unsaturated fat is liquid (oil).
To make margarine, which is solid, requires converting some of the
unsaturated (with hydrogen) oil to saturated fat. This is done by
pumping hydrogen gas through the oil in the presence of a catalyst.

The catalyst binds and distorts the unsaturated fatty acid making it
vunerable to attack by the hydrogen. If the hydrogen attacks and binds
the fatty acid it will no longer be unsaturated, it will have become
saturated (with hydrogen). If there is enough hydrogen and the process
is done for long enough you should end up with all the fatty acids fully
hydrogenated (saturated). If the hydrogenation is only partial - just
enough to make the oil more solid - not all of the unsaturated will be
turned into saturated.

If the unsaturated fatty acid is released from the catalyst without
picking up any hydrogen it will spring back to its original shape, OR,
it will spring back in a trans shape. The key thing is that this trans
shape, while still unsaturated is straight instead of kinked. This means
it appears to be a saturated fat and behaves like one physically, but as
soon as the body tries to burn it like saturated fat it finds it can't.

The result is that trans fats hang around in the body and are difficult
to get rid of without free radicals. Any unsaturated fats + free
radicals = damage to the body, so all in all trans fats are bad news.

MattLB

Wow. Thank you so much.

So, in a sense it is the catalyst that triggers the problem. What do they
use as a catalyst?

If one take an anti-oxidant, will this make it harder for the body to remove
transfats?

(I'm thinking of making a webpage out of your explanation.)

Dave
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...bHighFat/links

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/




"MattLB" wrote in message
...


Dave wrote:

Note that trans fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids that have gone
through the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated.
Strictly
speaking only "partially hydrogenated oils" should have trans fats.
Fully hydrogenated fats/oils should have no trans fats as they have no
unsaturated fat at all. Whether the food labelling legal directives
allow some loopholes I don't know.

MattLB


Hmmm.

If I understand you, saturated fats cannot be made in trans fats.
Soybean
oil is 14% saturated fat, so I figure the other 86% is unsaturated fat.
When you say that a fully hydrogenated fat or oil would have no trans
fats
because they have no unsaturated fat, you imply that our example,
hydrogenated soybean oil has no transfats. However, if the soybean oil
is
86% unsaturated fat, the result of hydrogenation should produce trans
fats.
No?

Your first sentence seems to say that unsaturated fatty acids can go
through
the hydrogenation process without getting hydrogenated.

That's true.

This seems self
contradictory. Can a house go through the painting process without
getting
painted?

If you don't have enough paint, yes.

Either I am seriously failing to understand you, or you are yanking my
chain. The later would not be unusual on USENET.

No chain yanking, I promise.
A bit of background: Saturated fats have straight fatty acids, whereas
unsaturated fats have kinked fatty acids. This leads to saturated fat
being solid a room temperature, whereas unsaturated fat is liquid (oil).
To make margarine, which is solid, requires converting some of the
unsaturated (with hydrogen) oil to saturated fat. This is done by
pumping hydrogen gas through the oil in the presence of a catalyst.

The catalyst binds and distorts the unsaturated fatty acid making it
vunerable to attack by the hydrogen. If the hydrogen attacks and binds
the fatty acid it will no longer be unsaturated, it will have become
saturated (with hydrogen). If there is enough hydrogen and the process
is done for long enough you should end up with all the fatty acids fully
hydrogenated (saturated). If the hydrogenation is only partial - just
enough to make the oil more solid - not all of the unsaturated will be
turned into saturated.

If the unsaturated fatty acid is released from the catalyst without
picking up any hydrogen it will spring back to its original shape, OR,
it will spring back in a trans shape. The key thing is that this trans
shape, while still unsaturated is straight instead of kinked. This means
it appears to be a saturated fat and behaves like one physically, but as
soon as the body tries to burn it like saturated fat it finds it can't.

The result is that trans fats hang around in the body and are difficult
to get rid of without free radicals. Any unsaturated fats + free
radicals = damage to the body, so all in all trans fats are bad news.

MattLB

Dave wrote:

Wow. Thank you so much.

So, in a sense it is the catalyst that triggers the problem. What do they
use as a catalyst?

Usually nickel, because it's cheap and easy to get hold of.

If one take an anti-oxidant, will this make it harder for the body to remove
transfats?

Tricky one. The attempted removal of trans fats is done by white blood
cells, which generate free radicals on demand (usually to attack
bacteria), so it's possible there may be a reduction in their
effectiveness with high levels of antioxidants. On the other hand the
places trans fats tend to end up, like the fatty deposits in arteries,
don't have much in the way of antioxidants anyway, which is half the
problem.

(I'm thinking of making a webpage out of your explanation.)

Okay, that'll be 1000 dollars a word :-)

MattLB