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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:28 PM posted to alt.support.diet.low-carb
Doug Freyburger
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Default Benefits of ketogenic diets

Susan wrote:
Doug Freyburger wrote:

In fact it's in the design
of every well known low carb plan to ultilize this metabolic loophole to
burn stored fat without triggering starvation moded.


Not relevent, once again. I KNOW why it happens, I'm a well read long
term very low carber. The discussion here is how it affects T3.


And you're one of the few who understand the T3 tie-in for why lower and
lower carb for longer and longer is not a good thing.

that's why metabolism rate adapts, to conserve them.


Stalls do in fact happen in a very large number of people who go too low
too long. In fact it's in the design of every well known low carb plan
to avoid such stalls.


Stalls actually happen in all diet methods, that's called a plateau. In
my case, permanent lowering of metabolism occurred after my T3 dropped
off the charts, after my first few days of induction levels during a
brief Atkins trial.


Exactly. Different people have different levels of T3 response but you
posted reports that T3 keeps dropping and dropping in low carbers over
time. You saw such rapid drop the regular two week Induction was too
much for you. Some others see stalls starting in two weeks as reported
in studies about "VLCD" (where the C means calories unfortunately) if
they stay on Induction. Others don't stall at 20 until they have under
some amount to lose. Others still make it all the way down to their
ideal weight at 20. Needless to say, those who make it all the way down
to their ideal weight at 20 assert it's the best way to go for everyone.
How would that work for you? Exactly.

So there are optimization strategies that work for the lucky ones, and
then there are optimization strategies that work fo rthe ones who aren't
that lucky. Stall avoidance matters.

... Because low
carbing has us not hungry, so it might have monkeys not hungry and, so I
thought until the results of that study came out, have also resulted in
longevity benefits.


Low carbing has some folks, most folks not hungry or less hungry. But
not all.


Correct. With low fat a large minority are never hungry but either a
majroty of large majority are constantly hungry. Doctor Atkins claimed
that no one is hungry while low carbing. He wasn't correct. I think a
higher pecentage of the population are not hungry while low carbing than
while low fatting but I am not aware of any study done to confirm that
opinion. I think it true but would need studies to be certain it's
true. I do know that some are constantly hungry while low carbing the
way I was constantly hungry while I was low fatting.

Those would be the folks with higher cortisol levels, which
can be caused, TAH DAH, by lower T3! Thyroid and cortisol act in
limiting ways on one another.


Before you mentioned cortisol I do not believe any major figure in the
low carb field addressed the topic with any significant effort.

One of the several arguments lodged against low carbing is that going
very low effects cortisol levels and that change in cortisol levels
causes irritability that drives people off low carbing. This argument
assumes that most low carbers go low enough and stay low enough long
enough to trigger cortisol level changes. In sert usual statement about
different people reacting differently here - You have a much stronger
reaction than most.

The problem with that argument is it boils down to most/all low carbers
staying at Induction levels. Which is yet another reason why I stress
that "following the directions" includes not digging for excuses to stay
on phase 1 of a 4 phase process.

No, I never read any diet doctor's directions before succesfully low
carbing, and Dr. Atkins were not the best ones out there when I did... I
read PubMed and created a diet from the information there, then read
some books. Only Protein Power proved fully accurate and useful. It
addressed the T3 issue, too, and the need to supplement some patients in
their practice when they went on low carb.


How did your thyroxine dosage change and how did that impact your
cortisol levels? When I started low carbing my dosage was not changed
but as it mentions in the Atkins book I entered a permanent stall 6
months after I switched from "stay near CCLL" to "dig for excuses to
stay lower". I did 6 months doing a lock step process to find my CCLL
and stick to it and during that 6 months I lost 40 pounds. Very fast
results. Then I spent 6 months at 30 because 30 is easy and I didn't
lose a pound. That's when I started going back through forum archives
finding dozens or hundreds who had stalled by staying at 20 and I
started studying T3 levels.