I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started
losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a
plateau and is not losing anymore pounds. My question is this....

Does anyone know if there are carbs in bones. I'm only supposed to
give her a bone once a week. but sometimes it's convenient to give her
more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I
do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :)

any help is help

Patti

Alibi > wrote in
:

> I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started
> losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a
> plateau and is not losing anymore pounds. My question is this....
>
> Does anyone know if there are carbs in bones. I'm only supposed to
> give her a bone once a week. but sometimes it's convenient to give her
> more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I
> do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :)

Chances are good you're going to get some responses warning of your dog's
imminent doom due to eating bones. <g>

The carb count of bones is an interesting question, but do you really need
to worry about it for your dogs? I'm under the impression that BARF
prescribes certain mineral ratios that can only be achieved by feeding x
amount of bones.

Anyway, more power to you. I've wanted to put my dog on BARF for a while,
but don't have the time to do it right. Whose plan do you follow?

Would you mind posting a sample daily menu?

Cate

"Alibi" > wrote in message
...
> I put my dogs on the BARF diet about 8 months ago. The fat dog started
> losing weight after about 3 weeks and did very well. She has hit a
> plateau and is not losing anymore pounds. My question is this....
>
> Does anyone know if there are carbs in bones. I'm only supposed to
> give her a bone once a week. but sometimes it's convenient to give her
> more. Also I'm supposed to make her fast on day per week, But when I
> do that she takes more of an interest in how the cat smells :)

I'm curious as to why you want to know about the carbs in bones? The "once a
week" bone should be a recreational bone, a large heavy one that isn't
likely to get consumed for the most part (except for the marrow). My two
German Shepherd Dogs usually get a couple of beef leg bones once a week or
so, and they never finish them by the time it's time for new ones.

In addition, consumable raw meaty bones should be fed daily with a
proportionate amount of muscle meat. Chicken frames, wings, necks, and so
forth. We also feed small amounts of finely ground vegetables, which would,
of course, contain carbs.

Our dogs also take a great interest in the cats on the days they are
fasting. They love the cat food so much. The cats get cat chow -- and it
comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think so.
:^P~

--
anka



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>
>In addition, consumable raw meaty bones should be fed daily with a
>proportionate amount of muscle meat. Chicken frames, wings, necks, and so
>forth. We also feed small amounts of finely ground vegetables, which would,
>of course, contain carbs.
>
>Our dogs also take a great interest in the cats on the days they are
>fasting. They love the cat food so much. The cats get cat chow -- and it
>comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think so.
>:^P~

Hehehe, My dogs love the cat poo snacks also, but they stopped eating
out of the cat box after i put them on BARF. The bones i feed them are
the consumable bones. They are beagles and it takes them about 2 hours
to eat the entire meal. The marrow bones are just too difficult.
unless I find the vertibrae bones.

when we increased the meaty bones the fat dog stalled on her weight
loss.

Patti

>Would you mind posting a sample daily menu?
>
>Cate


My dogs eat one of the following, twice per day.

1/2 pig foot
chicken back (spine included)
chicken breast (frozen and thawed by way of the microwave)
hamburger patty (frozen and thawed)
1/4 pound pork roast (cut up)
1/4 pound beef stew meat
2 oxtails pieces
marrow bones
salad greens w/"carb options" french dressing and tomatoes
3 ounces of cheddar cheese pieces
cooked broccoli (cooked is the only way they like it)
carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask!


They usually eat a salad on my days off

fish is expensive. About 1/2 of dogs are allergic to at least one type
of fish. (this is what

I'm told) so far they are not allergic.

all of their meals are cut up (usually the butcher is available to do
it for me) and most are

frozen. I move their food to the fridge for thawing 3 days prior to
serving. I don't slow

thaw the patties or the chicken breasts. Most foods have to be placed
on the counter, Still

in the plastic, for about 1 hour to bring it down to room temperature.
Or use the thaw

setting on the micro.


It took three months to move them to raw food. Don't worry about raw
bones. Only cooked bones

hurt dogs. Your vet might tell you that dogs can suffer food poisoning
the same as humans. My

only rebuttal is that packaged dog food has only been around for maybe
100 years, and there

is NO way a dog's metabolism has evolved in that span of time to eat
kibble, corn, wheat or

rice as a main staple. (that's how they keep the dog fod affordable)
It costs me about 12.00 per week to feed two beagles.

Patti

Alibi > wrote in
:

[...]

Thanks for all the info.

> fish is expensive. About 1/2 of dogs are allergic to at least one type
> of fish. (this is what
>
> I'm told) so far they are not allergic.

I've heard from other BARFers that people often feed canned mackerel--cheap
and stinkylicious for the dogs.

> It took three months to move them to raw food. Don't worry about raw
> bones. Only cooked bones
>
> hurt dogs. Your vet might tell you that dogs can suffer food poisoning
> the same as humans. My
>
> only rebuttal is that packaged dog food has only been around for maybe
> 100 years, and there
>
> is NO way a dog's metabolism has evolved in that span of time to eat
> kibble, corn, wheat or
>
> rice as a main staple. (that's how they keep the dog fod affordable)

Yep, this has been my thinking too. My dog's on a dry food that has few
ingredients, no corn, and no wheat, but I still want to get him off
processed kibble. I sometimes give him chicken necks or organ meat when I'm
cleaning a chicken for dinner. He's always reluctant, but that could be
because it's so cold from being in the fridge.

> It costs me about 12.00 per week to feed two beagles.

Not terrible. I bet the extra cost is worth it.

Thanks,
Cate

Alibi > wrote in
:

[...]

Thanks for all the info.

> fish is expensive. About 1/2 of dogs are allergic to at least one type
> of fish. (this is what
>
> I'm told) so far they are not allergic.

I've heard from other BARFers that people often feed canned mackerel--cheap
and stinkylicious for the dogs.

> It took three months to move them to raw food. Don't worry about raw
> bones. Only cooked bones
>
> hurt dogs. Your vet might tell you that dogs can suffer food poisoning
> the same as humans. My
>
> only rebuttal is that packaged dog food has only been around for maybe
> 100 years, and there
>
> is NO way a dog's metabolism has evolved in that span of time to eat
> kibble, corn, wheat or
>
> rice as a main staple. (that's how they keep the dog fod affordable)

Yep, this has been my thinking too. My dog's on a dry food that has few
ingredients, no corn, and no wheat, but I still want to get him off
processed kibble. I sometimes give him chicken necks or organ meat when I'm
cleaning a chicken for dinner. He's always reluctant, but that could be
because it's so cold from being in the fridge.

> It costs me about 12.00 per week to feed two beagles.

Not terrible. I bet the extra cost is worth it.

Thanks,
Cate

"Alibi" > wrote in message
...
>
> carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask!

LOL! Don't tell my dogs or they'll want theirs cooked like that too!

anka



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I sometimes give him chicken necks or organ meat when I'm
>cleaning a chicken for dinner. He's always reluctant, but that could be
>because it's so cold from being in the fridge.

He's probably reluctant because it makes him go outside and ralph.

unless you give them a small amount of raw food everyday. they cannot
tolerate it. this is why it took me three months to move them over. my
very fat dog kept bringing it back up. then her survival mechanism
would kick in that told her not to eat anything that smelled like
whatever made her sick, so she'd refuse it.

As long as I used the "natural pet" BARF food mixed with her canned
food, she tolerated it just fine, but when I gave her beef or porkfrom
the store it came back up. then I mixed a tablespoon of raw burger in
with the BARF/IAMS mix and it got better. then I increased it until
she accepted a whole slightly cooked burger.

funny they eat raw everything, but she still wants her burger slightly
cooked. so whatever the thaw cycle on the micro does to her burger
patties is acceptable to her.

Patti

"ankalime" <ankalimeAThotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
...
> "Alibi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Our dogs also take a great interest in the cats on the days they are
> fasting. They love the cat food so much. The cats get cat chow -- and it
> comes out pretty much the same as it went in. Or at least the dogs think
> so.
> :^P~

Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in the
wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't have ANY
carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds w/ some
digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent or bird gut).

That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been worknig at it
for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their normal food,
they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions appreciated.

Peace,
Pen

Penelope Baker wrote:

> Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs,
in the
> wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't have
ANY
> carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds w/ some
> digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent or bird
gut).

You're absolutely right. I just have never gotten around to switching
the cats over. Our GSDs are working dogs that we are trying to title,
and we've fed them BARF from day one, whereas the cats started on
kibble and canned and... well, they just lay around.

> That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been
worknig at it
> for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their normal
food,
> they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions appreciated.

Is it served at room temperature? Some cats won't touch cold food. At
the animal hospital I used to work at, we actually warmed leftover
canned cat food for the picky eaters. (Talk about gross...!) On the
other hand, it seems that if cold were the problem, your cats would
still eat the normal food at least... ::shrug:: I dunno!

anka

Alibi > wrote in
:

> He's probably reluctant because it makes him go outside and ralph.

No, he's a lab. <g> Hardly anything ever comes back up--whether it's
months-old deer carcass, a raw chicken heart, or the occasional small piece
of wood.

My suspicion is that he prefers his 'people food' cooked because the smell
of cooked meat is what he's used to.

Cate

"ankalime" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Penelope Baker wrote:
>
> Is it served at room temperature?

i've tried room temp, hot, cold, frozen...nothing. i'm pulling my hair
out :\

peace,
pen

"Penelope Baker" > wrote in
:

> Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in
> the wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't
> have ANY carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds
> w/ some digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent
> or bird gut).
>
> That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been worknig
> at it for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their
> normal food, they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions
> appreciated.

Suggestions: raw food at room temperature or slightly warm. Zap food in
microwave for 5-8 seconds, stir, then 5-8 more seconds to warm it if it's
cold from the fridge.

Feed organic meat (especially chicken) - organic meat just tastes better.
My two cats do not like the supermarket chicken injected with salt water
(neither do I - it smells bad to me).

Try chunked meat and ground meat to determine if they have a preference.
Mine like ground meat only if it's fresh. Once it's frozen and thawed they
don't like it. Generally I feed chunked meat.

Try to determine individual preferences. My one cat loves liver; my other
cat doesn't like it and will snub a whole dish of food just because there's
one small piece of liver in it. I have to find and remove the liver before
she'll eat her meal.

Try different types of meat - lamb, beef, chicken, rabbit.

Try mixing with a favorite stinky canned food, such as Fancy Feast.

I feed twice a day at scheduled times. The food is presented and left down
for them for approx. 10 minutes. Usually they finish eating in less than 5
minutes. If for some reason they turn their noses up at it (and I can't
determine a specific reason like misplaced piece of liver or cat feeling
ill), I put it back in the fridge until the next feeding time. Believe me,
they are very aware that if they don't eat breakfast they will have to wait
11 hours until dinner, so in general they eat quite heartily!

Finally, sometimes it comes down to a matter of wills. If you really want
the cats to switch over, you may have to let them fast for one to several
days. Attempt this only if your cats are in good health. You will have to
be strong and not give in, otherwise you reward them for being finicky. My
experience is by the end of the second day they are ready to eat again.

Dee

"Dee" > wrote in message ...
> "Penelope Baker" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Cats should be on a BARF style raw-diet even more than dogs. Dogs, in
>> the wild, are a good bit more omnivorous than cats. Cats shouldn't
>> have ANY carbs at all, except the smallest amount of greens or seeds
>> w/ some digestive enzymes added to them (to simulate food in a rodent
>> or bird gut).
>>
>> That being said, I can't ge my cats to convert...and I've been worknig
>> at it for months :\ If there's even 1 teaspoon of raw food in their
>> normal food, they'll choose to fast rather than eat :\ Suggestions
>> appreciated.
>
> Suggestions: raw food at room temperature or slightly warm. Zap food in
> microwave for 5-8 seconds, stir, then 5-8 more seconds to warm it if it's
> cold from the fridge.
>
> Feed organic meat (especially chicken) - organic meat just tastes better.
> My two cats do not like the supermarket chicken injected with salt water
> (neither do I - it smells bad to me).

i can't afford it. :\

> Try chunked meat and ground meat to determine if they have a preference.
> Mine like ground meat only if it's fresh. Once it's frozen and thawed
> they
> don't like it. Generally I feed chunked meat.

i HAVE noticed that i can get them to eat a bite or two when it's chunky,
you're dead on there. but it's still a losing battle :\

> Try to determine individual preferences. My one cat loves liver; my other
> cat doesn't like it and will snub a whole dish of food just because
> there's
> one small piece of liver in it. I have to find and remove the liver
> before
> she'll eat her meal.

yes, liver has been an issue :P most definitely. i too had to remove it,
mine are like 'uh, NO. just no.' then i worry they're not getting the organ
meat they need?

> Try different types of meat - lamb, beef, chicken, rabbit.

ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long as
i don't put bone meal in it...eaten happily in fact..but they need the
calcium/phosphorous. do you have any suggestions on getting the
calcium/phosphorous in without the bone meal?

> Try mixing with a favorite stinky canned food, such as Fancy Feast.

i do that...i can get them to eat a little bit that way, but i really want
them off the ick. :\ i've tried gradually increasing a teaspoon, two
teaspoons, a tablespoon...they generally stop eating at around 2-3
tablespoons of raw food mixed into a full can of other stuff. i sat at that
level for more than a month, and couldn't get them to budge past it.

> I feed twice a day at scheduled times. The food is presented and left
> down
> for them for approx. 10 minutes.

i free feed. i probably shouldn't, but i do. they always seem happier that
way and they're never overweight, so...

> Finally, sometimes it comes down to a matter of wills. If you really want
> the cats to switch over, you may have to let them fast for one to several
> days. Attempt this only if your cats are in good health. You will have
> to
> be strong and not give in, otherwise you reward them for being finicky.
> My
> experience is by the end of the second day they are ready to eat again.

not in good health. one is, the other isn't. i'd rather see the sick one
eating ANYTHING than nothing. :\ cats are one of the few animals known to
starve themselves to death because of a dislike for food available too.

peace,
pen

I switched my dog to low carb, but not raw. He stopped gaining, but did not
lose any weight.

I spoil my dog. He often eats better than I do.


"Alibi" > wrote in message
...

It's always been my understanding that dogs can't digest veggies that
aren't cooked a bit. I do cook the veggies that I put in my dogs food
for that reason. YMMV

--
Cheri

ankalime wrote in message >...
>
>"Alibi" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> carrots (slightly cooked with splenda and cinnamon) don't ask!
>
>LOL! Don't tell my dogs or they'll want theirs cooked like that too!
>
>anka
>
>
>
>----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+ Newsgroups
>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----

"Penelope Baker" > wrote in message
...
> ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long
as
> i don't put bone meal in it...eaten happily in fact..but they need the
> calcium/phosphorous. do you have any suggestions on getting the
> calcium/phosphorous in without the bone meal?


grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell

"None Given" > wrote in message
...
> "Penelope Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ground beef is accepted better than anything else. chicken is ok as long
> as
>> i don't put bone meal in it...eaten happily in fact..but they need the
>> calcium/phosphorous. do you have any suggestions on getting the
>> calcium/phosphorous in without the bone meal?
>
>
> grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell

I read about eggshells, but there was some objection to using cooked eggs
(and fully raw ones for that matter). What are your thoughts on using fully
cooked eggs?

Peace,
Pen

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Cate wrote:

> No, he's a lab. <g> Hardly anything ever comes back up--whether it's
> months-old deer carcass, a raw chicken heart, or the occasional small
> piece of wood.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html#dogs

KeS

wrote in news:Pine.OSX.4.58.0502181029550.16942
@onorysvfu.chefhrq-jvgu.arg:

> http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dogsinelk.html#dogs

OMG. I've known and loved Dogs in Elk for several years.

Anyone who owns a dog should read it. It's a discussion group exchange
whose main contributor is a woman whose dogs have taken up residence inside
the carcass of a dead elk and are eating their way out. And her family's
coming for the holiday weekend.

Cate

"Penelope Baker" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell
>
> I read about eggshells, but there was some objection to using cooked eggs
> (and fully raw ones for that matter). What are your thoughts on using
fully
> cooked eggs?


I guess I never heard or read any objection to it. My cats diet was never
raw, though. Everything in it was cooked. It's been a while, I need to
start making their food again, their coats got so shiny and healthy looking
when they were on it.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Cheri wrote:
> It's always been my understanding that dogs can't digest veggies that
> aren't cooked a bit. I do cook the veggies that I put in my dogs food
> for that reason. YMMV

We pulverize the raw vegetables (kale, carrots, greens, stuff like
that)for that reason, but also feed canned cooked pumpkin (NOT pie
mix). Mixed with a small amount of vinegar. It simulates prey stomach
contents.

anka

"None Given" > wrote in message
...
> "Penelope Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >
>> > grind up boiled eggs, still in the shell
>>
>> I read about eggshells, but there was some objection to using cooked eggs
>> (and fully raw ones for that matter). What are your thoughts on using
> fully
>> cooked eggs?
>
>
> I guess I never heard or read any objection to it. My cats diet was never
> raw, though. Everything in it was cooked. It's been a while, I need to
> start making their food again, their coats got so shiny and healthy
> looking
> when they were on it.
>
> --
> No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Ahhh..thanks. I'm pretty convinced that cooking their meat is really
detrimental to them, and why they end up hyperthyroid and with kidney
failure. They just aren't meant to handle it... I swear, all my kittens
from this day forth, will never know canned food, kibble, or cooked meat...
Learned my lesson this time around ... it's VERY hard to get a sick 15 year
old boy to up and eat a new diet :P

Peace,
Pen
-----------
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com