Re: Sorta OT - Bizarre dilemma -- TOO thin!

[nimue]

Michael Nielsen wrote:
> Penelope Baker wrote:
>
>> I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if they
>> don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
>> often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
>> whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
>> dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
>> anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
>> prevalent. She may need help...
>
> Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go join
> the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.

You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think she's not, but
I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I know she is underweight.
Whether that is because, well, that's just her body, or if it's because of
an eating disorder I don't know. I think she does not have an eating
disorder, although I know they are common in gymnastics -- I just don't
think she has one.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[Penelope Baker]

That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very interested.
Nothing more, nothing less.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com


"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Penelope Baker wrote:
> || I'd tell her the truth.
>
> What is the truth that you have in mind?
>
> Fat people know they're fat, even if they
> || don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
> || often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
> || whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
> || dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
> || anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
> || prevalent. She may need help...
> ||
> || --
> || Peace,
> || Pen
> || --
> || Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
> || http://www.pawbreakers.com
> ||
> ||
> || "nimue" > wrote in message
> || ...
> ||| I ran into a friend of mine today who has always been thin -- very
> ||| thin. In fact, she is even thinner now than she has ever been.
> ||| She's a yoga, gymnastics, exercise freak who eats only organic
> ||| vegetables, fruits, and grains. She is really, REALLY thin.
> ||| Anyway, we were chatting and she is very lonely. She broke up with
> ||| her last boyfriend some time ago and hasn't had anyone since. In
> ||| fact, she really has not spent the last ten years with anyone. She
> ||| has had two brief relationships in the past ten years. She wants
> ||| me to set her up with someone (I have had great success setting
> ||| people up on blind dates and have quite a reputation!) and I will
> ||| try but I know that every man I have ever known has told me that
> ||| she is too thin. She's very nice, very sweet, everyone likes her,
> ||| but no one is attracted to her. She's all muscle and sinew -- thin.
> ||| I can't describe it. I assume she is very healthy because of how
> ||| she eats and exercises. I really think she would attract a lot
> ||| more men if she would gain 15 or 20 pounds, but how ON EARTH do you
> ||| tell someone that? I mean, all my friends who are trying to lose
> ||| weight -- we can all joke, or go exercise together, or -- well, the
> ||| communication is easy. Here, though, it's just so weird. I don't
> ||| know if she can even gain weight. She's really nice -- REALLY nice
> ||| -- and very lonely. I wouldn't even consider telling her anything
> ||| except that she told me she is so lonely and wants to find a nice
> ||| guy to share her life with. I know that she should be able to find
> ||| a guy who doesn't care about how thin she is. I mean, our SOs
> ||| should be okay with how we look, right? Still, I do think that
> ||| guys immediately put her into the "friend" category because she
> ||| really looks like a little boy. So, what would you do? What would
> ||| you say? Nothing? Something? I like her -- but all the single
> ||| men I know would -- or already do -- think she is too thin. I feel
> ||| like I should say something, but then I feel like a hypocrite
> ||| (because I want to be thinner!) and a b*tch -- I don't want to hurt
> ||| her feelings. So, any suggestions? --
> ||| nimue
> |||
> ||| "If I had created reality television I would have had a much
> ||| greater influence,
> ||| but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
> ||| Joss Whedon
>
>

[Penelope Baker]

"nimue" > wrote in message
...
> Michael Nielsen wrote:
> > Penelope Baker wrote:
> >
> >> I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if they
> >> don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
> >> often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
> >> whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
> >> dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
> >> anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
> >> prevalent. She may need help...
> >
> > Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go join
> > the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.
>
> You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think she's not,
but
> I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I know she is underweight.
> Whether that is because, well, that's just her body, or if it's because of
> an eating disorder I don't know. I think she does not have an eating
> disorder, although I know they are common in gymnastics -- I just don't
> think she has one.

That's cool then. If she's OK, and she's happy with how she looks, then
she's just going to have to realize that it's going to take a special man to
want to be with her, just as it takes a special man to be with an overweight
lady. Someone who's capable of getting past outward appearances.

I guess I'd say that you should either support her as she is, including the
loneliness she seems to be suffering, or let her know what's up with the
guys you'd otherwise fix her up with.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[Roger Zoul]

Penelope Baker wrote:
|| That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
|| interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
||

And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to satisfy these
men...

This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.

|| --
|| Peace,
|| Pen
|| --
|| Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
|| http://www.pawbreakers.com
||
||
|| "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
|| ...
||| Penelope Baker wrote:
||||| I'd tell her the truth.
|||
||| What is the truth that you have in mind?
|||
||| Fat people know they're fat, even if they
||||| don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
||||| often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
||||| whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
||||| dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
||||| anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
||||| prevalent. She may need help...
|||||
||||| --
||||| Peace,
||||| Pen
||||| --
||||| Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
||||| http://www.pawbreakers.com
|||||
|||||
||||| "nimue" > wrote in message
||||| ...
|||||| I ran into a friend of mine today who has always been thin --
|||||| very thin. In fact, she is even thinner now than she has ever
|||||| been.
|||||| She's a yoga, gymnastics, exercise freak who eats only organic
|||||| vegetables, fruits, and grains. She is really, REALLY thin.
|||||| Anyway, we were chatting and she is very lonely. She broke up
|||||| with her last boyfriend some time ago and hasn't had anyone
|||||| since. In fact, she really has not spent the last ten years
|||||| with anyone. She has had two brief relationships in the past
|||||| ten years. She wants me to set her up with someone (I have
|||||| had great success setting people up on blind dates and have
|||||| quite a reputation!) and I will
|||||| try but I know that every man I have ever known has told me that
|||||| she is too thin. She's very nice, very sweet, everyone likes
|||||| her, but no one is attracted to her. She's all muscle and sinew
|||||| -- thin.
|||||| I can't describe it. I assume she is very healthy because of how
|||||| she eats and exercises. I really think she would attract a lot
|||||| more men if she would gain 15 or 20 pounds, but how ON EARTH do
|||||| you tell someone that? I mean, all my friends who are trying to
|||||| lose weight -- we can all joke, or go exercise together, or --
|||||| well, the communication is easy. Here, though, it's just so
|||||| weird. I don't know if she can even gain weight. She's really
|||||| nice -- REALLY nice -- and very lonely. I wouldn't even
|||||| consider telling her anything except that she told me she is so
|||||| lonely and wants to find a nice
|||||| guy to share her life with. I know that she should be able to
|||||| find
|||||| a guy who doesn't care about how thin she is. I mean, our SOs
|||||| should be okay with how we look, right? Still, I do think that
|||||| guys immediately put her into the "friend" category because she
|||||| really looks like a little boy. So, what would you do? What
|||||| would you say? Nothing? Something? I like her -- but all the
|||||| single
|||||| men I know would -- or already do -- think she is too thin. I
|||||| feel like I should say something, but then I feel like a
|||||| hypocrite (because I want to be thinner!) and a b*tch -- I don't
|||||| want to hurt her feelings. So, any suggestions? --
|||||| nimue
||||||
|||||| "If I had created reality television I would have had a much
|||||| greater influence,
|||||| but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
|||||| Joss Whedon

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
|| Michael Nielsen wrote:
||| Penelope Baker wrote:
|||
|||| I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if they
|||| don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
|||| often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
|||| whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
|||| dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
|||| anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
|||| prevalent. She may need help...
|||
||| Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go join
||| the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.
||
|| You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think she's
|| not, but I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I know she is
|| underweight. Whether that is because, well, that's just her body, or
|| if it's because of an eating disorder I don't know. I think she
|| does not have an eating disorder, although I know they are common in
|| gymnastics -- I just don't think she has one.

According to you...

||
|| --
|| nimue
||
|| "If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
|| influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
|| Joss Whedon

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
|| Michael Nielsen wrote:
||| nimue wrote:
|||| You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think she's
|||| not, but I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I know she is
|||| underweight. Whether that is because, well, that's just her body,
|||| or
|||| if it's because of an eating disorder I don't know. I think she
|||| does not have an eating disorder, although I know they are common
|||| in gymnastics -- I just don't think she has one.
|||
||| I'm just tired of seeing thin people being persecuted by
||| skinny-haters. People know ****. For example a woman I know had
||| friends who all called her rail thin as a stick, she wanted to watch
||| her weight, ooh she must be anorexic, while I would judge her
||| slightly overweight. She went for checkup and her body fat was
||| 29%...
||
|| FWIW, my friend is SO lean. She has no body fat. I also -- again
|| -- do not think she is anorexic.

How do you know she has no bodyfat? How tall is she and how much does she
weigh?

[Roger Zoul]

Penelope Baker wrote:
|| "Michael Nielsen" > wrote in message
|| ...
||| Penelope Baker wrote:
|||
|||| I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if they
|||| don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
|||| often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
|||| whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
|||| dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
|||| anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
|||| prevalent. She may need help...
|||
||| Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go
||| join the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.
||
|| I don't know what your problem is. I'm not saying she IS anorexic,
|| I'm saying the OP made her condition sound extreme, and indicated
|| that she is very involved in a sport known for it's anorexic
|| females, second only to ballet. What's wrong with wanting to make
|| sure your friend is OK, you know?

The world doesn't look at a thin person and see "anorexic". There is no body
type for anorexic.

Some people are naturally thin. Period. Through the eyes of a fat person
what does a naturally thin person look like? Someone with an eating
disorder? I wonder just who is screwed up here.

[Penelope Baker]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Penelope Baker wrote:
> || That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
> || interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
> ||
>
> And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to satisfy
these
> men...
>
> This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.

That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us, especially those of
us here, have changed our appearance based on satisfying our own desires,
including those for companionship. To reduce the desire to have a house,
home, and family to 'trying to satisfy men' seems a bit...hasty and limiting
in scope...?

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[Penelope Baker]

"Luna" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Penelope Baker" > wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I guess I'd say that you should either support her as she is, including
the
> > loneliness she seems to be suffering, or let her know what's up with the
> > guys you'd otherwise fix her up with.
> >
> > --
> > Peace,
> > Pen
>
> Actually, what you just said set off a thought. I'd bet loneliness is
more
> of a turnoff than body shape.

<great observations snipped>

That is very true Luna...good insight.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[Penelope Baker]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Penelope Baker wrote:
> || "nimue" > wrote in message
> || ...
> ||| Michael Nielsen wrote:
> |||| Penelope Baker wrote:
> ||||
> ||||| I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if they
> ||||| don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny people
> ||||| often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally made it!'
> ||||| whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It becomes a
> ||||| dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may actually BE
> ||||| anorexic. There's a LOT of that in gymnastics...it's very
> ||||| prevalent. She may need help...
> ||||
> |||| Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go
> |||| join the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.
> |||
> ||| You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think she's
> ||| not, but I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I know she is
> ||| underweight. Whether that is because, well, that's just her body,
> ||| or if it's because of an eating disorder I don't know. I think she
> ||| does not have an eating disorder, although I know they are common
> ||| in gymnastics -- I just don't think she has one.
> ||
> || That's cool then. If she's OK, and she's happy with how she looks,
> || then she's just going to have to realize that it's going to take a
> || special man to want to be with her, just as it takes a special man
> || to be with an overweight lady. Someone who's capable of getting
> || past outward appearances.
> ||
> || I guess I'd say that you should either support her as she is,
> || including the loneliness she seems to be suffering, or let her know
> || what's up with the guys you'd otherwise fix her up with.
>
> I had a girlfriend who was 5'9" and weighed 110 lbs. Very low bodyfat,
but
> quite sexy.

Yeah, it's all a matter of personal taste. The OP's friend either needs to
be patient or make changes, but in either scenario she needs to accept her
decision and be happy as she can be.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[curious]

I guess my thinking is that a woman who gives off vibes that she is
desperately lonely and "has to have someone" probably scares guys off more
than her size--either "too thin" or "too fat". Besides, who decides who
is "too thin"? Do you mean she doesn't have a figure? Many very straight,
almost "no figured" women get married and have families....I can think of
a couple here in Poland right now.

I'd advise that she be comfortable with who she is, be friendly to
everyone and work up a network of people to do things with and shake off
the idea that "you have to have a SO if you are going to "count". I have
pretty high standards (morally), which would be probably be way higher
than most people here, but, IMO, if she "sells herself" cheaply, then men
won't respect her, and the ones who want to "be with her" aren't worth it
anyway. There are much worse things that being single, and that is being
with a man who is a jerk.

I'd take the advice of some of the men here who advise her to watch how
she dresses, does her hair, talks, walks, etc...and if she doesn't have a
great figure, then be feminine anyway. If her body fat is at 8%, I'd guess
that some people would think that is great.

But, if the guy is attracted ONLY by her looks, then what happens when her
looks change, or she gains weight, or has a car accident, or
whatever....it isn't much of a basis for a relationship, IMO.

FWIW,
Becky P.
www.family.solidrockpl.org

[Penelope Baker]

"nimue" > wrote in message news:1dlLc.37749

> However, I think some good energy headed
> her way would be a great thing!

Sounds like a plan. I'll send some good vibes her way now!

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[Roger Zoul]

Penelope Baker wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
|| ...
||| Penelope Baker wrote:
||||| "nimue" > wrote in message
||||| ...
|||||| Michael Nielsen wrote:
||||||| Penelope Baker wrote:
|||||||
|||||||| I'd tell her the truth. Fat people know they're fat, even if
|||||||| they don't want to talk about it, but athletic, REALLY skinny
|||||||| people often look in the mirror and see 'I'm fit! I finally
|||||||| made it!' whereas the rest of the world sees 'anorexic'. It
|||||||| becomes a dichotomy in the mind..and you never know, she may
|||||||| actually BE anorexic. There's a LOT of that in
|||||||| gymnastics...it's very prevalent. She may need help...
|||||||
||||||| Jesus christ, another one of those thin = anorexic people... Go
||||||| join the club and whine about the evil media and fashion world.
||||||
|||||| You know -- I don't know if she is anorexic or not. I think
|||||| she's not, but I could be wrong. She is too thin, though. I
|||||| know she is underweight. Whether that is because, well, that's
|||||| just her body,
|||||| or if it's because of an eating disorder I don't know. I think
|||||| she does not have an eating disorder, although I know they are
|||||| common
|||||| in gymnastics -- I just don't think she has one.
|||||
||||| That's cool then. If she's OK, and she's happy with how she
||||| looks, then she's just going to have to realize that it's going
||||| to take a special man to want to be with her, just as it takes a
||||| special man
||||| to be with an overweight lady. Someone who's capable of getting
||||| past outward appearances.
|||||
||||| I guess I'd say that you should either support her as she is,
||||| including the loneliness she seems to be suffering, or let her
||||| know what's up with the guys you'd otherwise fix her up with.
|||
||| I had a girlfriend who was 5'9" and weighed 110 lbs. Very low
||| bodyfat, but quite sexy.
||
|| Yeah, it's all a matter of personal taste. The OP's friend either
|| needs to be patient or make changes, but in either scenario she
|| needs to accept her decision and be happy as she can be.

Right. I assume the thin lady is not stupid, so she knows she is thin. If
she indeed does have an eating disorder, that ought to be addressed apart
from the weight issue. Is that problem is solved, then it may be likely
that she'd naturally pick up weight (assuming there is a problem).

[Roger Zoul]

Luna wrote:
|| In article >,
|| Michael Nielsen > wrote:
||
||| Luna wrote:
||||
|||| Do you think she has an eating disorder? If you do, then as a
|||| friend you need to speak up for the sake of her health.
|||
||| Grrrr.....
|||
||
|| Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as soon
|| as someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it when I see
|| the
|| phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
|| "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin? Just like
|| if my tires are "too smushy" I assume they need some air. If they
|| don't need air, ergo they're not too smushy. If she is not
|| unhealthy, then she is not too thin. Maybe she's thinner than those
|| particular men prefer, but that's not her problem, it's their
|| limitation.

It's very easy to be "too thin" in the eyes of someone who is either
overweight or very used to people being overweight.

[Penelope Baker]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Penelope Baker wrote:
> || "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
> || ...
> ||| Penelope Baker wrote:
> ||||| That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
> ||||| interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
> |||||
> |||
> ||| And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
> ||| satisfy these men...
> |||
> ||| This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
> ||
> || That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us, especially
> || those of us here, have changed our appearance based on satisfying
> || our own desires, including those for companionship. To reduce the
> || desire to have a house, home, and family to 'trying to satisfy men'
> || seems a bit...hasty and limiting in scope...?
>
> Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by reducing
the
> desire to have a house, home and family...are you suggesting she can't do
> those thing as she is now and without a man?


Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we do not
know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could be other
things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome, one must
determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.

I have nothing further to say on this matter.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[Penelope Baker]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Penelope Baker wrote:
> || "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
> || ...
> ||| Penelope Baker wrote:
> ||||| That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
> ||||| interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
> |||||
> |||
> ||| And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
> ||| satisfy these men...
> |||
> ||| This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
> ||
> || That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us, especially
> || those of us here, have changed our appearance based on satisfying
> || our own desires, including those for companionship. To reduce the
> || desire to have a house, home, and family to 'trying to satisfy men'
> || seems a bit...hasty and limiting in scope...?
>
> Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by reducing
the
> desire to have a house, home and family...are you suggesting she can't do
> those thing as she is now and without a man?


Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we do not
know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could be other
things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome, one must
determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.

I have nothing further to say on this matter.

--
Peace,
Pen
--
Pawbreakers - The Candy for Cats!
http://www.pawbreakers.com

[nimue]

snip
>>> This is a very nice person we are talking about -- she is very into
>>> health, and holistic stuff, and I don't think she has an eating
>>> disorder.
>
> I'm not sure why this matters - that she is a very nice person...does
> that somehow mean that you need to set her straight for her own good?
>

No! I mean I want her to be happy because she deserves it. It has nothing
to do with what I do or do not say to her.
>>> I just think that her lack of curves and her very, very
>>> lean physique may not attract the guys. OTOH, I think that what
>>> Michelle said has some merit, too. Perhaps they can sense how
>>> lonely she is and it scares them. Hey -- why don't we all just
>>> send her some good energy so she finds a great guy -- she deserves
>>> one! I have decided not to say anything to her about her figure
>>> because it just makes me too uncomfortable. However, I think some
>>> good energy headed her way would be a great thing! --
>>> nimue
>
> Good.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

snip
>>> This is a very nice person we are talking about -- she is very into
>>> health, and holistic stuff, and I don't think she has an eating
>>> disorder.
>
> I'm not sure why this matters - that she is a very nice person...does
> that somehow mean that you need to set her straight for her own good?
>

No! I mean I want her to be happy because she deserves it. It has nothing
to do with what I do or do not say to her.
>>> I just think that her lack of curves and her very, very
>>> lean physique may not attract the guys. OTOH, I think that what
>>> Michelle said has some merit, too. Perhaps they can sense how
>>> lonely she is and it scares them. Hey -- why don't we all just
>>> send her some good energy so she finds a great guy -- she deserves
>>> one! I have decided not to say anything to her about her figure
>>> because it just makes me too uncomfortable. However, I think some
>>> good energy headed her way would be a great thing! --
>>> nimue
>
> Good.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Luna wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Michael Nielsen > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Luna wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think she has an eating disorder? If you do, then as a
>>>>> friend you need to speak up for the sake of her health.
>>>>
>>>> Grrrr.....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as soon
>>> as someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it when I see
>>> the
>>> phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
>>> "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin? Just like
>>> if my tires are "too smushy" I assume they need some air. If they
>>> don't need air, ergo they're not too smushy. If she is not
>>> unhealthy, then she is not too thin. Maybe she's thinner than those
>>> particular men prefer, but that's not her problem, it's their
>>> limitation.
>
> It's very easy to be "too thin" in the eyes of someone who is either
> overweight or very used to people being overweight.

Oh, no. I have been thin and my family is thin for the most part, and most
of my friends are thin. I have no problem with thin. I know what an eating
disorder looks like -- my sis and bro both had one -- and I also know what
"too thin" (you're right -- to me) looks like. Please. I teach teenagers.
I see plenty of slender people who look great all the time.
--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Luna wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Michael Nielsen > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Luna wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think she has an eating disorder? If you do, then as a
>>>>> friend you need to speak up for the sake of her health.
>>>>
>>>> Grrrr.....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as soon
>>> as someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it when I see
>>> the
>>> phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
>>> "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin? Just like
>>> if my tires are "too smushy" I assume they need some air. If they
>>> don't need air, ergo they're not too smushy. If she is not
>>> unhealthy, then she is not too thin. Maybe she's thinner than those
>>> particular men prefer, but that's not her problem, it's their
>>> limitation.
>
> It's very easy to be "too thin" in the eyes of someone who is either
> overweight or very used to people being overweight.

Oh, no. I have been thin and my family is thin for the most part, and most
of my friends are thin. I have no problem with thin. I know what an eating
disorder looks like -- my sis and bro both had one -- and I also know what
"too thin" (you're right -- to me) looks like. Please. I teach teenagers.
I see plenty of slender people who look great all the time.
--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Penelope Baker wrote:
> "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Penelope Baker wrote:
>>>> "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Penelope Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
>>>>>>> interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
>>>>> satisfy these men...
>>>>>
>>>>> This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
>>>>
>>>> That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us, especially
>>>> those of us here, have changed our appearance based on satisfying
>>>> our own desires, including those for companionship. To reduce the
>>>> desire to have a house, home, and family to 'trying to satisfy men'
>>>> seems a bit...hasty and limiting in scope...?
>>
>> Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by
>> reducing the desire to have a house, home and family...are you
>> suggesting she can't do those thing as she is now and without a man?
>
>
> Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we
> do not know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could
> be other things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome,
> one must determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.
>
> I have nothing further to say on this matter.
>
You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who said
it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry about
other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much for sending the
good energy! :-)
> --
> Peace,
> Pen

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Penelope Baker wrote:
> "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Penelope Baker wrote:
>>>> "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Penelope Baker wrote:
>>>>>>> That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be very
>>>>>>> interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
>>>>> satisfy these men...
>>>>>
>>>>> This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
>>>>
>>>> That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us, especially
>>>> those of us here, have changed our appearance based on satisfying
>>>> our own desires, including those for companionship. To reduce the
>>>> desire to have a house, home, and family to 'trying to satisfy men'
>>>> seems a bit...hasty and limiting in scope...?
>>
>> Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by
>> reducing the desire to have a house, home and family...are you
>> suggesting she can't do those thing as she is now and without a man?
>
>
> Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we
> do not know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could
> be other things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome,
> one must determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.
>
> I have nothing further to say on this matter.
>
You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who said
it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry about
other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much for sending the
good energy! :-)
> --
> Peace,
> Pen

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
:: Penelope Baker wrote:
::: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
::: ...
:::: Penelope Baker wrote:
:::::: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
:::::: ...
::::::: Penelope Baker wrote:
::::::::: That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be
::::::::: very interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
:::::::::
:::::::
::::::: And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
::::::: satisfy these men...
:::::::
::::::: This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
::::::
:::::: That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us,
:::::: especially those of us here, have changed our appearance based
:::::: on satisfying our own desires, including those for
:::::: companionship. To reduce the desire to have a house, home, and
:::::: family to 'trying to satisfy men' seems a bit...hasty and
:::::: limiting in scope...?
::::
:::: Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by
:::: reducing the desire to have a house, home and family...are you
:::: suggesting she can't do those thing as she is now and without a
:::: man?
:::
:::
::: Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we
::: do not know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could
::: be other things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome,
::: one must determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.
:::
::: I have nothing further to say on this matter.
:::
:: You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who
:: said
:: it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry
:: about other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much
:: for sending the good energy! :-)

good grief.

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
:: Penelope Baker wrote:
::: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
::: ...
:::: Penelope Baker wrote:
:::::: "Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
:::::: ...
::::::: Penelope Baker wrote:
::::::::: That there are some men the OP knows who would otherwise be
::::::::: very interested. Nothing more, nothing less.
:::::::::
:::::::
::::::: And so begins the roller coaster of her trying to do things to
::::::: satisfy these men...
:::::::
::::::: This lady is naturally thin. That's a fact.
::::::
:::::: That's a huge assumption, don't'cha think? Lots of us,
:::::: especially those of us here, have changed our appearance based
:::::: on satisfying our own desires, including those for
:::::: companionship. To reduce the desire to have a house, home, and
:::::: family to 'trying to satisfy men' seems a bit...hasty and
:::::: limiting in scope...?
::::
:::: Heck no. You're making the assumption. And what do you mean by
:::: reducing the desire to have a house, home and family...are you
:::: suggesting she can't do those thing as she is now and without a
:::: man?
:::
:::
::: Don't read things into my posts please. What I'm saying is that we
::: do not know her motivations; it could be what I suggested, it could
::: be other things. But like all things in life, to effect an outcome,
::: one must determine whether or not effecting a change is needed.
:::
::: I have nothing further to say on this matter.
:::
:: You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who
:: said
:: it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry
:: about other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much
:: for sending the good energy! :-)

good grief.

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
:: snip
::::: This is a very nice person we are talking about -- she is very
::::: into health, and holistic stuff, and I don't think she has an
::::: eating disorder.
:::
::: I'm not sure why this matters - that she is a very nice
::: person...does that somehow mean that you need to set her straight
::: for her own good?
:::
::
:: No! I mean I want her to be happy because she deserves it. It has
:: nothing to do with what I do or do not say to her.

IMO, everyone deserves to be happy.

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Luna wrote:
::::: In article >,
::::: Michael Nielsen > wrote:
:::::
:::::: Luna wrote:
:::::::
::::::: Do you think she has an eating disorder? If you do, then as a
::::::: friend you need to speak up for the sake of her health.
::::::
:::::: Grrrr.....
::::::
:::::
::::: Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as
::::: soon as someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it
::::: when I see the
::::: phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
::::: "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin? Just
::::: like if my tires are "too smushy" I assume they need some air.
::::: If they don't need air, ergo they're not too smushy. If she is not
::::: unhealthy, then she is not too thin. Maybe she's thinner than
::::: those particular men prefer, but that's not her problem, it's
::::: their limitation.
:::
::: It's very easy to be "too thin" in the eyes of someone who is either
::: overweight or very used to people being overweight.
::
:: Oh, no. I have been thin and my family is thin for the most part,
:: and most of my friends are thin. I have no problem with thin. I
:: know what an eating disorder looks like -- my sis and bro both had
:: one -- and I also know what "too thin" (you're right -- to me) looks
:: like. Please. I teach teenagers. I see plenty of slender people
:: who look great all the time. --
:: nimue

Well, you've finally found that people can exceed even your expectations of
what "thin" is. If this lady is not having health issues because of her low
body weight, then saying she is too thin is silly other than for just
stating your opinion (which is fine, btw). However, while you've said over
and over that you, who knows her personally, thinks she doesn't have an
eating disorder, your comments have resulted in others thinking that she
does. Also note that you didn't say she was a gymnast, just that she has
some involvement with that activity (along with others).

Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
too thin.

[Roger Zoul]

nimue wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Luna wrote:
::::: In article >,
::::: Michael Nielsen > wrote:
:::::
:::::: Luna wrote:
:::::::
::::::: Do you think she has an eating disorder? If you do, then as a
::::::: friend you need to speak up for the sake of her health.
::::::
:::::: Grrrr.....
::::::
:::::
::::: Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as
::::: soon as someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it
::::: when I see the
::::: phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
::::: "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin? Just
::::: like if my tires are "too smushy" I assume they need some air.
::::: If they don't need air, ergo they're not too smushy. If she is not
::::: unhealthy, then she is not too thin. Maybe she's thinner than
::::: those particular men prefer, but that's not her problem, it's
::::: their limitation.
:::
::: It's very easy to be "too thin" in the eyes of someone who is either
::: overweight or very used to people being overweight.
::
:: Oh, no. I have been thin and my family is thin for the most part,
:: and most of my friends are thin. I have no problem with thin. I
:: know what an eating disorder looks like -- my sis and bro both had
:: one -- and I also know what "too thin" (you're right -- to me) looks
:: like. Please. I teach teenagers. I see plenty of slender people
:: who look great all the time. --
:: nimue

Well, you've finally found that people can exceed even your expectations of
what "thin" is. If this lady is not having health issues because of her low
body weight, then saying she is too thin is silly other than for just
stating your opinion (which is fine, btw). However, while you've said over
and over that you, who knows her personally, thinks she doesn't have an
eating disorder, your comments have resulted in others thinking that she
does. Also note that you didn't say she was a gymnast, just that she has
some involvement with that activity (along with others).

Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
too thin.

[nimue]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> nimue wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>>> This is a very nice person we are talking about -- she is very
>>>>>> into health, and holistic stuff, and I don't think she has an
>>>>>> eating disorder.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why this matters - that she is a very nice
>>>> person...does that somehow mean that you need to set her straight
>>>> for her own good?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No! I mean I want her to be happy because she deserves it. It has
>>> nothing to do with what I do or do not say to her.
>
> IMO, everyone deserves to be happy.

Roger, you are so weird. I am explaining what I meant, because you did not
understand it. Furthermore, the fact is that there are some people who are
so nice you just wish for their happiness a little more than you do for the
jerks of the world.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Roger Zoul wrote:
> nimue wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>>> This is a very nice person we are talking about -- she is very
>>>>>> into health, and holistic stuff, and I don't think she has an
>>>>>> eating disorder.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why this matters - that she is a very nice
>>>> person...does that somehow mean that you need to set her straight
>>>> for her own good?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No! I mean I want her to be happy because she deserves it. It has
>>> nothing to do with what I do or do not say to her.
>
> IMO, everyone deserves to be happy.

Roger, you are so weird. I am explaining what I meant, because you did not
understand it. Furthermore, the fact is that there are some people who are
so nice you just wish for their happiness a little more than you do for the
jerks of the world.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> I know that my former GF, at 5'9" and 110lbs had some issues due to her low
> weight. Her hip bones where like sharp knives and she was very cold
> natured. But she was strong and she loved to eat...

All women I know are cold-natured, regardless of stoutness :)

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> I know that my former GF, at 5'9" and 110lbs had some issues due to her low
> weight. Her hip bones where like sharp knives and she was very cold
> natured. But she was strong and she loved to eat...

All women I know are cold-natured, regardless of stoutness :)

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> I know that my former GF, at 5'9" and 110lbs had some issues due to her low
> weight. Her hip bones where like sharp knives and she was very cold
> natured. But she was strong and she loved to eat...

All women I know are cold-natured, regardless of stoutness :)

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
> too thin.

Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
> too thin.

Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.

[Michael Nielsen]

Elana wrote:
> the gaze at appropriate times. Also, they showed how the woman can
> show interest in the guy by leaning into or tilting the head towards
> the guy during a conversation. These tips sound strange, but when
> they showed the woman's before and after dating techniques, the
> difference was amazing. Maybe you can try these with your friend as a
> joke sometime.

They also need to learn to look men in the eyes.

[Ada Ma]

nimue wrote:

>(I have had great success setting people
> up on blind dates and have quite a reputation!)

OK. Nimue. When are you coming to my town? <G>

If I were you I might tell her what those men said but point out that it might
not be what the men actually think. You have to be aware that telling her "too
thin" might bring her angst against people's prejudices that takes up her energy
yet brings her no benefits. This sort of angst can take over people's life,
which is why people developed this tactful reject line - YOU ARE NOT MY TYPE -
instead of saying anything substantial like "You're too ..." (replace the dots
with whatever adjectives you have on hand, e.g. thin, rich, poor, stupid, fat,
immature, young, old, optimistic, pessimistic, needy, silly, beautiful, etc.)

These "prejudices" on thinness might not be real. The male friends you have
might have said "too thin" as an excuse because they don't fancy her as a
person. Often I notice men behave lovingly to their SOs - women twice the size
of myself (and I'm B-I-G) - and I've come to the conclusion that size doesn't
matter. It might matter on the margin, shifts the probability of finding
someone plus or minus a few percents, but that's about it.

Before you look forward into the future, you might want to take a step back. I
wonder whether your friend has really healed from her previous breakups? Or is
she just covering it up? Rejections / break ups shatter confidence. People are
like sharks, they can sniff out the slightest insecurity and either slag her off
or find it too much of a burden, insufferably fragile to hang out with. If her
confidence issues aren't sorted then she might attract the wrong kind of guy.

I also wonder if your friend is spending too much time exercising, cooking her
organic greens, and not enough time meeting people? She seems to be the sporty
kind - may be she can pick up a sport that has loads of male participants?

[Ada Ma]

nimue wrote:

>(I have had great success setting people
> up on blind dates and have quite a reputation!)

OK. Nimue. When are you coming to my town? <G>

If I were you I might tell her what those men said but point out that it might
not be what the men actually think. You have to be aware that telling her "too
thin" might bring her angst against people's prejudices that takes up her energy
yet brings her no benefits. This sort of angst can take over people's life,
which is why people developed this tactful reject line - YOU ARE NOT MY TYPE -
instead of saying anything substantial like "You're too ..." (replace the dots
with whatever adjectives you have on hand, e.g. thin, rich, poor, stupid, fat,
immature, young, old, optimistic, pessimistic, needy, silly, beautiful, etc.)

These "prejudices" on thinness might not be real. The male friends you have
might have said "too thin" as an excuse because they don't fancy her as a
person. Often I notice men behave lovingly to their SOs - women twice the size
of myself (and I'm B-I-G) - and I've come to the conclusion that size doesn't
matter. It might matter on the margin, shifts the probability of finding
someone plus or minus a few percents, but that's about it.

Before you look forward into the future, you might want to take a step back. I
wonder whether your friend has really healed from her previous breakups? Or is
she just covering it up? Rejections / break ups shatter confidence. People are
like sharks, they can sniff out the slightest insecurity and either slag her off
or find it too much of a burden, insufferably fragile to hang out with. If her
confidence issues aren't sorted then she might attract the wrong kind of guy.

I also wonder if your friend is spending too much time exercising, cooking her
organic greens, and not enough time meeting people? She seems to be the sporty
kind - may be she can pick up a sport that has loads of male participants?

[Michael Nielsen]

nimue wrote:
>
> Roger, you are so weird. I am explaining what I meant, because you did not
> understand it. Furthermore, the fact is that there are some people who are
> so nice you just wish for their happiness a little more than you do for the
> jerks of the world.

I think most jerks are jerks, because they are not happy.

[Michael Nielsen]

nimue wrote:
>
> Roger, you are so weird. I am explaining what I meant, because you did not
> understand it. Furthermore, the fact is that there are some people who are
> so nice you just wish for their happiness a little more than you do for the
> jerks of the world.

I think most jerks are jerks, because they are not happy.

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> :: You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who
> :: said
> :: it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry
> :: about other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much
> :: for sending the good energy! :-)
>
> good grief.

Yep.

[Michael Nielsen]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> :: You said the important thing -- and so far you are the only one who
> :: said
> :: it -- you are going to send my friend some good energy. Don't worry
> :: about other people misunderstanding your posts. Thank you so much
> :: for sending the good energy! :-)
>
> good grief.

Yep.

[Michael Nielsen]

wilson wrote:
>
> But you know what? I COULDN'T GET A GUY. If I was so allegedly good
> looking then how come people my own age always said I was UGLY? How
> come with my big tits and tiny waist, I STILL COULDN'T GET A GUY? How
> come my best friend, who was fourty pounds overweight, wore really
> sloppy clothes that looked like she slept in them, had guys CRAWLING
> ALL OVER HER all the time?

Male teens are as insecure as the females, and they would never go for
the beauty, because how could they ever get someone like that. So they
went for the beauty's dorky friend, instead.

[Michael Nielsen]

wilson wrote:
>
> But you know what? I COULDN'T GET A GUY. If I was so allegedly good
> looking then how come people my own age always said I was UGLY? How
> come with my big tits and tiny waist, I STILL COULDN'T GET A GUY? How
> come my best friend, who was fourty pounds overweight, wore really
> sloppy clothes that looked like she slept in them, had guys CRAWLING
> ALL OVER HER all the time?

Male teens are as insecure as the females, and they would never go for
the beauty, because how could they ever get someone like that. So they
went for the beauty's dorky friend, instead.

[J. David Anderson]

Michael Nielsen wrote:

> Luna wrote:
>
>> Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as soon as
>> someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it when I see the
>> phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
>> "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin?
>
>
> Personally I'd never take another person's word for it (saying that a
> person is too thin) :)
>
> I think it was one or two years ago my view on skinniness changed
> through a very long and tiring discussion with a friend who is 5'2" and
> 105 lbs. I thought that was terribly low and must be unhealthy and I
> searched journal databases for evidence that I was right, and she used
> material from medical school as she was a doctor. Everything I could
> find was blown off, because it only related to malnutrition and other
> factors that have nothing to do with the low weight. When skinniness and
> health problems are related, the low weight is not the cause but a
> symptom of the real problem.

I have been scrolling through this thread with steadily increasing
bewilderment. Most contributors seem to be American so I suppose that
could explain some of the incredible differences in perception regarding
female body weight, but certainly not all of it.

A woman who is five foot tall and weighs between 100 & 110lbs is not
thin! The heaviest woman I have ever dated was five nine in bare feet
and weighed 120lbs. She was gorgeous. We are still friends, twenty-seven
years later and she still looks pretty good. My wife is five three and
105lbs, and she is very shapely and turns heads quite easily. I have
five daughters, all tall, none of whom weigh more than 120lbs, all are
fit, healthy and attractive.

Where is this "too thin!" hysteria coming from? My wife is full
breasted, has nice hips, a small waist and has 19% body fat. She is not
thin, she is NORMAL. And pretty good looking. ;)

I find this whole thread quite amazing. It has been quite a few years
since I lived in the US, I guess that the standards have really changed.
Back then the girls I dated (California - San Francisco & Los Angeles)
were pretty much the same as those around me now; in Queensland's Gold
Coast. When did it all change? I am beginning to feel that the average
American woman must be built like those women in the Oprah show
audiences if they can regard a 105lb, 5' woman as abnormally thin. I
thought that Oprah only attracted those large ladies because she was so
big herself.

The only thing that I gather from this, is that the woman in question is
a little flat chested, (along with not being fat). That's ok, there are
plenty of guys who don't mind dating girls who may not be so well
endowed. There are many other things that a guy can find attractive.

It is outrageous to even consider that she should be induced to make
major changes in her personal appearance and fitness merely to be more
appealing to some men. Any man who demands or expects a minimum standard
of physical attractiveness based on "curves" would be too shallow to be
any use as a prospective partner. My wife, although curvy now, was quite
small breasted when I met her (and back then, at twenty, weighed 98lbs)
but it didn't affect her attractiveness.

Leave the poor girl alone, she is probably closer to ideal than most.

Regards

David

[J. David Anderson]

Michael Nielsen wrote:

> Luna wrote:
>
>> Hey, I was just wondering. I don't think "eating disorder" as soon as
>> someone says "thin" but I'm sorry to say I do think it when I see the
>> phrase "too thin." Because to me, "too thin" naturally implies
>> "unhealthy" because otherwise how could it _be_ too thin?
>
>
> Personally I'd never take another person's word for it (saying that a
> person is too thin) :)
>
> I think it was one or two years ago my view on skinniness changed
> through a very long and tiring discussion with a friend who is 5'2" and
> 105 lbs. I thought that was terribly low and must be unhealthy and I
> searched journal databases for evidence that I was right, and she used
> material from medical school as she was a doctor. Everything I could
> find was blown off, because it only related to malnutrition and other
> factors that have nothing to do with the low weight. When skinniness and
> health problems are related, the low weight is not the cause but a
> symptom of the real problem.

I have been scrolling through this thread with steadily increasing
bewilderment. Most contributors seem to be American so I suppose that
could explain some of the incredible differences in perception regarding
female body weight, but certainly not all of it.

A woman who is five foot tall and weighs between 100 & 110lbs is not
thin! The heaviest woman I have ever dated was five nine in bare feet
and weighed 120lbs. She was gorgeous. We are still friends, twenty-seven
years later and she still looks pretty good. My wife is five three and
105lbs, and she is very shapely and turns heads quite easily. I have
five daughters, all tall, none of whom weigh more than 120lbs, all are
fit, healthy and attractive.

Where is this "too thin!" hysteria coming from? My wife is full
breasted, has nice hips, a small waist and has 19% body fat. She is not
thin, she is NORMAL. And pretty good looking. ;)

I find this whole thread quite amazing. It has been quite a few years
since I lived in the US, I guess that the standards have really changed.
Back then the girls I dated (California - San Francisco & Los Angeles)
were pretty much the same as those around me now; in Queensland's Gold
Coast. When did it all change? I am beginning to feel that the average
American woman must be built like those women in the Oprah show
audiences if they can regard a 105lb, 5' woman as abnormally thin. I
thought that Oprah only attracted those large ladies because she was so
big herself.

The only thing that I gather from this, is that the woman in question is
a little flat chested, (along with not being fat). That's ok, there are
plenty of guys who don't mind dating girls who may not be so well
endowed. There are many other things that a guy can find attractive.

It is outrageous to even consider that she should be induced to make
major changes in her personal appearance and fitness merely to be more
appealing to some men. Any man who demands or expects a minimum standard
of physical attractiveness based on "curves" would be too shallow to be
any use as a prospective partner. My wife, although curvy now, was quite
small breasted when I met her (and back then, at twenty, weighed 98lbs)
but it didn't affect her attractiveness.

Leave the poor girl alone, she is probably closer to ideal than most.

Regards

David

[nimue]

J. David Anderson wrote:
snip
> I have been scrolling through this thread with steadily increasing
> bewilderment. Most contributors seem to be American so I suppose that
> could explain some of the incredible differences in perception
> regarding female body weight, but certainly not all of it.
>
> A woman who is five foot tall and weighs between 100 & 110lbs

I would say she weighs between 90 and 100 -- closer to the 90 mark. I never
said she weighed between 100 and 110.

> is not
> thin! The heaviest woman I have ever dated was five nine in bare feet
> and weighed 120lbs. She was gorgeous. We are still friends,
> twenty-seven years later and she still looks pretty good. My wife is
> five three and 105lbs, and she is very shapely and turns heads quite
> easily. I have five daughters, all tall, none of whom weigh more than
> 120lbs, all are fit, healthy and attractive.
>
> Where is this "too thin!" hysteria coming from? My wife is full
> breasted, has nice hips, a small waist and has 19% body fat. She is
> not thin, she is NORMAL. And pretty good looking. ;)
>
My friend really has no chest and is so, so lean.

> I find this whole thread quite amazing. It has been quite a few years
> since I lived in the US, I guess that the standards have really
> changed. Back then the girls I dated (California - San Francisco &
> Los Angeles) were pretty much the same as those around me now; in
> Queensland's Gold Coast. When did it all change? I am beginning to
> feel that the average American woman must be built like those women
> in the Oprah show audiences if they can regard a 105lb, 5' woman as
> abnormally thin. I thought that Oprah only attracted those large
> ladies because she was so big herself.

Well, my friend isn't 105. She might not even be 95.
>
> The only thing that I gather from this, is that the woman in question
> is a little flat chested, (along with not being fat). That's ok,
> there are plenty of guys who don't mind dating girls who may not be
> so well endowed. There are many other things that a guy can find
> attractive.
>
> It is outrageous to even consider that she should be induced to make
> major changes in her personal appearance and fitness merely to be more
> appealing to some men. Any man who demands or expects a minimum
> standard of physical attractiveness based on "curves" would be too
> shallow to be any use as a prospective partner. My wife, although
> curvy now, was quite small breasted when I met her (and back then, at
> twenty, weighed 98lbs) but it didn't affect her attractiveness.
>
> Leave the poor girl alone, she is probably closer to ideal than most.

No, she's not. She like a boy. However, I do agree with what everyone else
has been saying -- it's her desperate loneliness that is putting the guys
off. I called my best friend today and talked about setting up this girl,
our mutual friend, with one of my best friend's guy friends. My best friend
said, "You know, she can be very clingy and needy and it puts guys off."
So, what Luna thought was right. I, as a woman, never experienced this
clinginess from her. She, imo, is too lean. I guess you can be 5' and 90
lbs and be attractive, but she is so sinewy and I appreciate a more soft
look. Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
that guy very happy.
>
> Regards
>
> David

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

J. David Anderson wrote:
snip
> I have been scrolling through this thread with steadily increasing
> bewilderment. Most contributors seem to be American so I suppose that
> could explain some of the incredible differences in perception
> regarding female body weight, but certainly not all of it.
>
> A woman who is five foot tall and weighs between 100 & 110lbs

I would say she weighs between 90 and 100 -- closer to the 90 mark. I never
said she weighed between 100 and 110.

> is not
> thin! The heaviest woman I have ever dated was five nine in bare feet
> and weighed 120lbs. She was gorgeous. We are still friends,
> twenty-seven years later and she still looks pretty good. My wife is
> five three and 105lbs, and she is very shapely and turns heads quite
> easily. I have five daughters, all tall, none of whom weigh more than
> 120lbs, all are fit, healthy and attractive.
>
> Where is this "too thin!" hysteria coming from? My wife is full
> breasted, has nice hips, a small waist and has 19% body fat. She is
> not thin, she is NORMAL. And pretty good looking. ;)
>
My friend really has no chest and is so, so lean.

> I find this whole thread quite amazing. It has been quite a few years
> since I lived in the US, I guess that the standards have really
> changed. Back then the girls I dated (California - San Francisco &
> Los Angeles) were pretty much the same as those around me now; in
> Queensland's Gold Coast. When did it all change? I am beginning to
> feel that the average American woman must be built like those women
> in the Oprah show audiences if they can regard a 105lb, 5' woman as
> abnormally thin. I thought that Oprah only attracted those large
> ladies because she was so big herself.

Well, my friend isn't 105. She might not even be 95.
>
> The only thing that I gather from this, is that the woman in question
> is a little flat chested, (along with not being fat). That's ok,
> there are plenty of guys who don't mind dating girls who may not be
> so well endowed. There are many other things that a guy can find
> attractive.
>
> It is outrageous to even consider that she should be induced to make
> major changes in her personal appearance and fitness merely to be more
> appealing to some men. Any man who demands or expects a minimum
> standard of physical attractiveness based on "curves" would be too
> shallow to be any use as a prospective partner. My wife, although
> curvy now, was quite small breasted when I met her (and back then, at
> twenty, weighed 98lbs) but it didn't affect her attractiveness.
>
> Leave the poor girl alone, she is probably closer to ideal than most.

No, she's not. She like a boy. However, I do agree with what everyone else
has been saying -- it's her desperate loneliness that is putting the guys
off. I called my best friend today and talked about setting up this girl,
our mutual friend, with one of my best friend's guy friends. My best friend
said, "You know, she can be very clingy and needy and it puts guys off."
So, what Luna thought was right. I, as a woman, never experienced this
clinginess from her. She, imo, is too lean. I guess you can be 5' and 90
lbs and be attractive, but she is so sinewy and I appreciate a more soft
look. Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
that guy very happy.
>
> Regards
>
> David

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

nimue > wrote:

> I think if a guy would really get to know her -- get past her neediness --
> she would make that guy very happy.

they're not the ones who need to get past her neediness - she is.

[The Queen of Cans and Jars]

nimue > wrote:

> I think if a guy would really get to know her -- get past her neediness --
> she would make that guy very happy.

they're not the ones who need to get past her neediness - she is.

[Luna]

In article >,
"nimue" > wrote:

> Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
> would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
> that guy very happy.

Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women in
general do _not_ make guys very happy. I know, I was one, and I made the
guys I dated miserable.

Maybe you should encourage your friend to find ways to be happy and
fulfilled without a guy. Tell her that she alone is enough, she has
everything she needs right there within her, guy or no guy. Maybe one day
she will believe you and stop being needy and then of course, the guys will
start calling.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

[Luna]

In article >,
"nimue" > wrote:

> Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
> would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
> that guy very happy.

Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women in
general do _not_ make guys very happy. I know, I was one, and I made the
guys I dated miserable.

Maybe you should encourage your friend to find ways to be happy and
fulfilled without a guy. Tell her that she alone is enough, she has
everything she needs right there within her, guy or no guy. Maybe one day
she will believe you and stop being needy and then of course, the guys will
start calling.

--
Michelle Levin
http://www.mindspring.com/~lunachick

I have only 3 flaws. My first flaw is thinking that I only have 3 flaws.

[nimue]

Luna wrote:
> In article >,
> "nimue" > wrote:
>
>> Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
>> would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would
>> make that guy very happy.
>
> Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women
> in general do _not_ make guys very happy. I know, I was one, and I
> made the guys I dated miserable.
>
> Maybe you should encourage your friend to find ways to be happy and
> fulfilled without a guy. Tell her that she alone is enough, she has
> everything she needs right there within her, guy or no guy. Maybe
> one day she will believe you and stop being needy and then of course,
> the guys will start calling.


You're right. The thing is, with the girls she is so cool! She really
is. You know, she told me she was lonely when we last chatted, but it
didn't make me afraid or anything -- I just thought, "Oh, poor thing. What
can I do?" Of coures, she wasn't exactly clinging to me like I wa a life
raft, either. Well, my friend and I are still going to set her up with this
guy. I hope it works out. I don't know if I was ever the needy type. I
think -- I fear -- I was kind of b*tchy at times. I am much nicer now. I
have had more boyfriends than she has, so I think I have had more
opportunities to learn about men. Anyway, my husband and I might hang out
with my friend and the potential boyfriend on their first date -- in a
crowd, the potential will see her fun personality and not be overwhelmed.
She will also feel more comfortable too, I think. You know -- she doesn't
know I am planning this, and the potential doesn't -- but I am.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[nimue]

Luna wrote:
> In article >,
> "nimue" > wrote:
>
>> Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
>> would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would
>> make that guy very happy.
>
> Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women
> in general do _not_ make guys very happy. I know, I was one, and I
> made the guys I dated miserable.
>
> Maybe you should encourage your friend to find ways to be happy and
> fulfilled without a guy. Tell her that she alone is enough, she has
> everything she needs right there within her, guy or no guy. Maybe
> one day she will believe you and stop being needy and then of course,
> the guys will start calling.


You're right. The thing is, with the girls she is so cool! She really
is. You know, she told me she was lonely when we last chatted, but it
didn't make me afraid or anything -- I just thought, "Oh, poor thing. What
can I do?" Of coures, she wasn't exactly clinging to me like I wa a life
raft, either. Well, my friend and I are still going to set her up with this
guy. I hope it works out. I don't know if I was ever the needy type. I
think -- I fear -- I was kind of b*tchy at times. I am much nicer now. I
have had more boyfriends than she has, so I think I have had more
opportunities to learn about men. Anyway, my husband and I might hang out
with my friend and the potential boyfriend on their first date -- in a
crowd, the potential will see her fun personality and not be overwhelmed.
She will also feel more comfortable too, I think. You know -- she doesn't
know I am planning this, and the potential doesn't -- but I am.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

[Michael Nielsen]

CarbAddict wrote:
>>>I think most jerks are jerks, because they are not happy.
>>I think most jerks are jerks,
> Oh.

Your snipped version of my post makes no sense. Is your point that I
should not have used a comma?

[Sunshyne]

>I have been scrolling through this thread with steadily increasing
>bewilderment. Most contributors seem to be American so I suppose that
>could explain some of the incredible differences in perception regarding
>female body weight, but certainly not all of it.
>
>A woman who is five foot tall and weighs between 100 & 110lbs is not
>thin! The heaviest woman I have ever dated was five nine in bare feet
>and weighed 120lbs. She was gorgeous. We are still friends, twenty-seven
>years later and she still looks pretty good. My wife is five three and
>105lbs, and she is very shapely and turns heads quite easily. I have
>five daughters, all tall, none of whom weigh more than 120lbs, all are
>fit, healthy and attractive.
>
>Where is this "too thin!" hysteria coming from? My wife is full
>breasted, has nice hips, a small waist and has 19% body fat. She is not
>thin, she is NORMAL. And pretty good looking. ;)
>
>I find this whole thread quite amazing. It has been quite a few years
>since I lived in the US, I guess that the standards have really changed.
>Back then the girls I dated (California - San Francisco & Los Angeles)
>were pretty much the same as those around me now; in Queensland's Gold
>Coast. When did it all change? I am beginning to feel that the average
>American woman must be built like those women in the Oprah show
>audiences if they can regard a 105lb, 5' woman as abnormally thin. I
>thought that Oprah only attracted those large ladies because she was so
>big herself.
>
>The only thing that I gather from this, is that the woman in question is
>a little flat chested, (along with not being fat). That's ok, there are
>plenty of guys who don't mind dating girls who may not be so well
>endowed. There are many other things that a guy can find attractive.
>
>It is outrageous to even consider that she should be induced to make
>major changes in her personal appearance and fitness merely to be more
>appealing to some men. Any man who demands or expects a minimum standard
>of physical attractiveness based on "curves" would be too shallow to be
>any use as a prospective partner. My wife, although curvy now, was quite
>small breasted when I met her (and back then, at twenty, weighed 98lbs)
>but it didn't affect her attractiveness.
>
>Leave the poor girl alone, she is probably closer to ideal than most.
>
>Regards
>
>David
>
>
Hi David. Just wanted to say that was nice reading you. :)

I am 5'5. I have my goal weight set at 135.

I considered myself too thin when a teenager. Most of the teenage years were
110-115 in pounds. But then I was considered tall for my age then, all legs,
scrawny looking, tomboyish.

[Sunshyne]

From: "nimue"
>No, she's not. She like a boy. However, I do agree with what everyone else
>has been saying -- it's her desperate loneliness that is putting the guys
>off.

I agree, it probably is the lonliness.

I called my best friend today and talked about setting up this girl,
>our mutual friend, with one of my best friend's guy friends. My best friend
>said, "You know, she can be very clingy and needy and it puts guys off."

So maybe help her a little, your friend, on not being so clingy and needy. Just
offer suggestions?

>So, what Luna thought was right. I, as a woman, never experienced this
>clinginess from her. She, imo, is too lean. I guess you can be 5' and 90
>lbs and be attractive, but she is so sinewy and I appreciate a more soft
>look. Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
>would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
>that guy very happy.
>>

I don't think its healthy to be clingy and needy, and in a relationship. Sounds
like great friend anyways, even if she is thin thin, she is kind and generous.

I am only really commenting like this. Is because I was thinking about dating
in the future. I have some slight neediness and clinginess. I need to know me
first, before starting any sort of a relationship, or dating.

>> Regards
>>
>> David
>
>--
>nimue
>
>"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
>influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
>Joss Whedon
>

[Sunshyne]

From: "nimue"
>No, she's not. She like a boy. However, I do agree with what everyone else
>has been saying -- it's her desperate loneliness that is putting the guys
>off.

I agree, it probably is the lonliness.

I called my best friend today and talked about setting up this girl,
>our mutual friend, with one of my best friend's guy friends. My best friend
>said, "You know, she can be very clingy and needy and it puts guys off."

So maybe help her a little, your friend, on not being so clingy and needy. Just
offer suggestions?

>So, what Luna thought was right. I, as a woman, never experienced this
>clinginess from her. She, imo, is too lean. I guess you can be 5' and 90
>lbs and be attractive, but she is so sinewy and I appreciate a more soft
>look. Still, she is so great and kind and generous and I think if a guy
>would really get to know her -- get past her neediness -- she would make
>that guy very happy.
>>

I don't think its healthy to be clingy and needy, and in a relationship. Sounds
like great friend anyways, even if she is thin thin, she is kind and generous.

I am only really commenting like this. Is because I was thinking about dating
in the future. I have some slight neediness and clinginess. I need to know me
first, before starting any sort of a relationship, or dating.

>> Regards
>>
>> David
>
>--
>nimue
>
>"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
>influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
>Joss Whedon
>

[Sunshyne]

nimue wrote:
>> I think if a guy would really get to know her -- get past her neediness --
>> she would make that guy very happy.
>
From: (The Queen of Cans and Jars)
>they're not the ones who need to get past her neediness - she is.
>
exactly.
>
>

[Sunshyne]

nimue wrote:
>> I think if a guy would really get to know her -- get past her neediness --
>> she would make that guy very happy.
>
From: (The Queen of Cans and Jars)
>they're not the ones who need to get past her neediness - she is.
>
exactly.
>
>

[Ada Ma]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
> too thin.

May it's because you live in the US.

[Ada Ma]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that I'm
> too thin.

May it's because you live in the US.

[Bob in CT]

On 21 Jul 2004 20:47:49 -0700, wilson > wrote:

>>
>> Male teens are as insecure as the females, and they would never go for
>> the beauty, because how could they ever get someone like that. So they
>> went for the beauty's dorky friend, instead.
>
> Actually, I was very very insecure - my best friend wasn't. She had
> all the confidence in the world.

That'll hurt you more than anything.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

[Bob in CT]

On 21 Jul 2004 20:47:49 -0700, wilson > wrote:

>>
>> Male teens are as insecure as the females, and they would never go for
>> the beauty, because how could they ever get someone like that. So they
>> went for the beauty's dorky friend, instead.
>
> Actually, I was very very insecure - my best friend wasn't. She had
> all the confidence in the world.

That'll hurt you more than anything.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

[FOB]

Are you saying men don't go for confident women? That is exactly the
opposite of my experience.

In ,
Bob in CT > stated
| On 21 Jul 2004 20:47:49 -0700, wilson > wrote:
|
|| Actually, I was very very insecure - my best friend wasn't. She had
|| all the confidence in the world.
|
| That'll hurt you more than anything.
|
| --
| Bob in CT
| Remove ".x" to reply

[Michael Nielsen]

FOB wrote:
> Are you saying men don't go for confident women? That is exactly the
> opposite of my experience.

I think he meant the insecurity hurts you more than anything.

[Michael Nielsen]

FOB wrote:
> Are you saying men don't go for confident women? That is exactly the
> opposite of my experience.

I think he meant the insecurity hurts you more than anything.

[Ada Ma]

Luna wrote:

> Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women in
> general do _not_ make guys very happy.

Same applies for men. Being with a clingy needy men who needs his ego
constantly and repeatedly stroked is exhausting and boring.

[Ada Ma]

Luna wrote:

> Actually, it's her who needs to get past the neediness. Needy women in
> general do _not_ make guys very happy.

Same applies for men. Being with a clingy needy men who needs his ego
constantly and repeatedly stroked is exhausting and boring.

[metta]

"> 5. She eats only organic grains, fruits, vegetables. When I was
> anorexic (and I am not saying she IS, because it could all just be a
> freaky coincidence - I don't know her), I was extremely picky about what
> I ate, and didn't eat very much, other anorexics in my support group
> only ate the teeniest amounts of organic everything.

i would agree that severely restrictive dietary habits can be indicitave of
an eating disorder.

> Not ALL anorexics
> purge via vomiting.

actually, anorexics don't purge at all. bullemics do. some folks have both
disorders.

>How the eating disorder is manifested is different
> for all. Some people only eat in front of other people, and they eat a
> healthy serving of rich food, thus hiding their eating disorder, only to
> eat nothing when nobody is watching. Some choose organic only food and
> eat it...

i suspect veganism is a common coverup for eating disorders myself...

> I had the gamut of eating disorders for nearly 2 decades. Thinking
> back, it was all the same eating disorder, but each thing was just a new
> way to hide it.
>
> I too, HATE seeing all thin people automatically being judged as
> "anorexic", just because they don't weigh 200 pounds (200 practically
> seems to be the new "normal"), but there were a lot of factors in that
> first post that set off alarm bells in my head.


-kelly

[metta]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Telling someone they need to gain weight is worse than telling someone
> they
> need to lose weight.

i don't understand how this could be true. being severely underweight is
NOT healthy. at all. people who are slightly overweight tend to be more
resistant to disease and recover from surgeries better than underweight
individuals.

of course, being in a *healthy* weight range would be preferable.

-kelly

[metta]

"Roger Zoul" > wrote in message
...
> Telling someone they need to gain weight is worse than telling someone
> they
> need to lose weight.

i don't understand how this could be true. being severely underweight is
NOT healthy. at all. people who are slightly overweight tend to be more
resistant to disease and recover from surgeries better than underweight
individuals.

of course, being in a *healthy* weight range would be preferable.

-kelly

[metta]

"Michael Nielsen" > wrote in message
...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>
>> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that
>> I'm
>> too thin.
>
> Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.

and why are you hanging about in a dieting support newsgroup again?

-kelly

[metta]

"Michael Nielsen" > wrote in message
...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>>
>> Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that
>> I'm
>> too thin.
>
> Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.

and why are you hanging about in a dieting support newsgroup again?

-kelly

[metta]

"Elana" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> TLC had a program one day where they were teaching a woman who's been
> single for 5 years how to pick up guys. They started with new clothes
> - more feminine, pastel colors, delicate jewelry, then makeup - also
> light and fresh, then hair, and then behavior. The behavior tips
> included swaying hips and raising the chest while walking and dropping
> the gaze at appropriate times. Also, they showed how the woman can
> show interest in the guy by leaning into or tilting the head towards
> the guy during a conversation. These tips sound strange, but when
> they showed the woman's before and after dating techniques, the
> difference was amazing. Maybe you can try these with your friend as a
> joke sometime.

that is seriously messed up. i can't imagine the kind of guy i'd wind up
with if i pretended to be someone else just to catch them.

i met my SO while on a motorcycle ride on a hot summer day. i had helmet
hair, jeans, and no makeup. and we're perfect for each other.
if i had been dressed in pastels and delicate jewelry, he probably wouldn't
have looked twice at me.

to the OP-
just let your friend be herself. if she needs to meet more guys, suggest a
class or something that she's interested in, but that guys might take too.
she's an athlete, right? she could try rock climbing or kayaking or
something, and meet guys with similar interests. don't tell her to become
something she's not. those kind of relationships will never work out.

-kelly

[metta]

"Elana" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> TLC had a program one day where they were teaching a woman who's been
> single for 5 years how to pick up guys. They started with new clothes
> - more feminine, pastel colors, delicate jewelry, then makeup - also
> light and fresh, then hair, and then behavior. The behavior tips
> included swaying hips and raising the chest while walking and dropping
> the gaze at appropriate times. Also, they showed how the woman can
> show interest in the guy by leaning into or tilting the head towards
> the guy during a conversation. These tips sound strange, but when
> they showed the woman's before and after dating techniques, the
> difference was amazing. Maybe you can try these with your friend as a
> joke sometime.

that is seriously messed up. i can't imagine the kind of guy i'd wind up
with if i pretended to be someone else just to catch them.

i met my SO while on a motorcycle ride on a hot summer day. i had helmet
hair, jeans, and no makeup. and we're perfect for each other.
if i had been dressed in pastels and delicate jewelry, he probably wouldn't
have looked twice at me.

to the OP-
just let your friend be herself. if she needs to meet more guys, suggest a
class or something that she's interested in, but that guys might take too.
she's an athlete, right? she could try rock climbing or kayaking or
something, and meet guys with similar interests. don't tell her to become
something she's not. those kind of relationships will never work out.

-kelly

[Ada Ma]

CarbAddict wrote:

>> From: Ada Ma (Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:22:05 +0100)
>>MsgId: >
>>
>>Being with a [..] man who needs his ego constantly
>>and repeatedly stroked is exhausting and boring.
>
>
> Is this metaphorical sex talk?
>

Nah! I was talking about ego, not "you know what"...
(Pretending that I'm Charlotte in SATC for a slick second.)

[Ada Ma]

CarbAddict wrote:

>> From: Ada Ma (Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:22:05 +0100)
>>MsgId: >
>>
>>Being with a [..] man who needs his ego constantly
>>and repeatedly stroked is exhausting and boring.
>
>
> Is this metaphorical sex talk?
>

Nah! I was talking about ego, not "you know what"...
(Pretending that I'm Charlotte in SATC for a slick second.)

[Ada Ma]

metta wrote:

> "Michael Nielsen" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Roger Zoul wrote:
>>
>>>Heck, I weigh 239 lbs @ 6'1" and I get people tell me all the time that
>>>I'm
>>>too thin.
>>
>>Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.
>
>
> and why are you hanging about in a dieting support newsgroup again?
>
> -kelly

The newsgroup is for everyone who eats a low carb diet. Sadly, being supportive
or not is a matter of personal choice by some of our group members. MN has
strange ideals about body shapes which some of us find ridiculous, though we
shouldn't question his membership on this usenet group.

[Crafting Mom]

metta > wrote:
>> Not ALL anorexics
>> purge via vomiting.
>
>actually, anorexics don't purge at all. bullemics do. some folks have both
>disorders.

There is a diagnosis of anorexia known as "purging anorexic."
The distinction between a bulimic and anorexic is the bulimic will binge
on vast amounts of food and then purge, whereas an anorexic sometimes
will purge smaller amounts of food eaten. (Food that they've eaten
sometimes in front of other people to "prove" they don't have an ED)

But yes, you are correct. Some folks do have both anorexia and
bulimia. When I was not starving myself, I was gorging and purging,
too.

[Crafting Mom]

metta > wrote:
>> Not ALL anorexics
>> purge via vomiting.
>
>actually, anorexics don't purge at all. bullemics do. some folks have both
>disorders.

There is a diagnosis of anorexia known as "purging anorexic."
The distinction between a bulimic and anorexic is the bulimic will binge
on vast amounts of food and then purge, whereas an anorexic sometimes
will purge smaller amounts of food eaten. (Food that they've eaten
sometimes in front of other people to "prove" they don't have an ED)

But yes, you are correct. Some folks do have both anorexia and
bulimia. When I was not starving myself, I was gorging and purging,
too.

[Michael Nielsen]

metta wrote:
>>
>>Show them a picture of me, I'm also 6'1" and 170 lbs.
>
>
> and why are you hanging about in a dieting support newsgroup again?

Because I'm a fan of LC - don't have to be strict about it myself, but I
can feel the benefits of LC, even not for weightloss. LC rules. Hi-GI
carbs are evil.

[Michael Nielsen]

Ada Ma wrote:
> The newsgroup is for everyone who eats a low carb diet. Sadly, being
> supportive or not is a matter of personal choice by some of our group
> members.

Depends on my mood. Sometimes I am, sometimes I feel people lacks some
sense of perfectionism and are too sugarcoaty. But generally it is
pretty fun and worthwhile to be here (getting updates about LC research
that I can use to show my friends that I'm right and food ideas and fun
off-topic discussions).

[Michael Nielsen]

Ada Ma wrote:
> The newsgroup is for everyone who eats a low carb diet. Sadly, being
> supportive or not is a matter of personal choice by some of our group
> members.

Depends on my mood. Sometimes I am, sometimes I feel people lacks some
sense of perfectionism and are too sugarcoaty. But generally it is
pretty fun and worthwhile to be here (getting updates about LC research
that I can use to show my friends that I'm right and food ideas and fun
off-topic discussions).

[Michael Nielsen]

metta wrote:
> i don't understand how this could be true. being severely underweight is
> NOT healthy. at all. people who are slightly overweight tend to be more
> resistant to disease and recover from surgeries better than underweight
> individuals.

The threshold for being too underweight is a lot lower than the general
population thinks. People often forget to distinguish between what makes
the person thin - is it low fat but a good layer of muscle or is it no
muscles, only fat, or neither muscle nor fat. And is the perosn thin
because the person is undernourished and unfit, or just very athletic,
fit and lowfat.

> of course, being in a *healthy* weight range would be preferable.

Which is?

[Michael Nielsen]

metta wrote:
> i don't understand how this could be true. being severely underweight is
> NOT healthy. at all. people who are slightly overweight tend to be more
> resistant to disease and recover from surgeries better than underweight
> individuals.

The threshold for being too underweight is a lot lower than the general
population thinks. People often forget to distinguish between what makes
the person thin - is it low fat but a good layer of muscle or is it no
muscles, only fat, or neither muscle nor fat. And is the perosn thin
because the person is undernourished and unfit, or just very athletic,
fit and lowfat.

> of course, being in a *healthy* weight range would be preferable.

Which is?

[Michael Nielsen]

metta wrote:
> actually, anorexics don't purge at all. bullemics do.

Wrong, bulimics are characterized by gorging vast amounts of food,
sometimes even including frozen meats and veggies from the freezer when
they run out of food in the fridge. then they feel guilty and purge.
Anorexics choose different ways of keeping from gaining weight, and some
choose purging. Purging is a symptom for both diseases.

bu·li·mi·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-lm-, -lm-, by-)
n.
1 An eating disorder, common especially among young women of normal or
nearly normal weight, that is characterized by episodic binge eating and
followed by feelings of guilt, depression, and self-condemnation. It is
often associated with measures taken to prevent weight gain, such as
self-induced vomiting, the use of laxatives, dieting, or fasting. Also
called bulimarexia, bulimia nervosa.
2 Excessive or insatiable appetite.

Main Entry: an·orex·ia
Pronunciation: "an-&-'rek-sE-&, -'rek-sh&
Function: noun
1 : loss of appetite especially when prolonged
2 : ANOREXIA NERVOSA

Main Entry: anorexia ner·vo·sa
Pronunciation: -(")n&r-'vO-s&, -z&
Function: noun
: a serious eating disorder primarily of young women in their teens and
early twenties that is characterized especially by a pathological fear
of weight gain leading to faulty eating patterns, malnutrition, and
usually excessive weight loss

[Michael Nielsen]

metta wrote:
> actually, anorexics don't purge at all. bullemics do.

Wrong, bulimics are characterized by gorging vast amounts of food,
sometimes even including frozen meats and veggies from the freezer when
they run out of food in the fridge. then they feel guilty and purge.
Anorexics choose different ways of keeping from gaining weight, and some
choose purging. Purging is a symptom for both diseases.

bu·li·mi·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-lm-, -lm-, by-)
n.
1 An eating disorder, common especially among young women of normal or
nearly normal weight, that is characterized by episodic binge eating and
followed by feelings of guilt, depression, and self-condemnation. It is
often associated with measures taken to prevent weight gain, such as
self-induced vomiting, the use of laxatives, dieting, or fasting. Also
called bulimarexia, bulimia nervosa.
2 Excessive or insatiable appetite.

Main Entry: an·orex·ia
Pronunciation: "an-&-'rek-sE-&, -'rek-sh&
Function: noun
1 : loss of appetite especially when prolonged
2 : ANOREXIA NERVOSA

Main Entry: anorexia ner·vo·sa
Pronunciation: -(")n&r-'vO-s&, -z&
Function: noun
: a serious eating disorder primarily of young women in their teens and
early twenties that is characterized especially by a pathological fear
of weight gain leading to faulty eating patterns, malnutrition, and
usually excessive weight loss

[Crafting Mom]

The Voice of Reason > wrote:
>
>To many women, especially over-weight ones, any woman slimmer than her is anorexic.

I can see how, by contrast alone, a slimmer woman might look anorexic, especially
in our very overweight society (the society I speak of being North America).

I've known some extremely skinny women, like *model* thin, and they've got a
healthy glow and eat very well, and keep active. There are others though, who
I've met who were extremely *gaunt*, and who seem one breath away from an IV
drip.

I've been anorexic in the past, and having people notice it was extremely
offensive to me. I went out of my way to avoid having it be an issue. I often
used that "Oh you're just saying that because now I am slimmer than YOU", as
well. I thought I was beautiful, but looking back at my yellow/grey skin which
had to be covered by tons of makeup to look nice, and my very breakable hair (in
a photograph), I looked like walking death.

Granted, my having been overweight is no better (I developed bulimia, and then
COE), but in both extremes I had very distorted vision about what I really looked
like. When I was very obese (260-270 pounds), I thought I was "just a little
plump", until I saw myself in photos. When I was way underweight, I thought "I
could still stand to lose a little, but at least I am skinny now."

How one sees oneself is quite often vastly different from objective points of
view.