Fat figures large in the decline of the inner spirit

[Steve Chaney, aka Papa Gunnykins ®]

Fat figures large in the decline of the inner spirit
By Amanda Dunn
Health Reporter
September 24, 2003

Dispelling the perception that depression causes obesity through the lure
of high-energy "comfort foods", a Melbourne study has found that obesity
exacerbates - or even causes - depression.

Conducted by Monash University's department of surgery, the study of 487
severely obese people measured depressive symptoms before patients had
keyhole surgery to help them lose weight, and then traced those symptoms
for four years after surgery and weight loss.

It found that, before losing weight, three-quarters of the patients had
mild or severe depressive symptoms.

But a year after stomach reduction surgery, only a quarter still showed
depressive symptoms; most had returned to the normal range.

The results were maintained for four years after surgery; those who lost
the most weight showed the biggest relief in depressive symptoms.

The average age of the patients was 40. All of them began with a body mass
index of at least 35, which is calculated by dividing weight in kilograms
by height in metres squared.

With keyhole surgery they all had installed a lap band, a silicone ring
that cordons off a small part of the stomach, giving a person a sense of
feeling full with much less food.

The study's author, John Dixon, said that while a relationship between the
two conditions had long been suspected, this was the first study to "show
that weight loss has a major effect on depressive symptoms".

Before they lost weight, patients reported depressive symptoms such as
social isolation, tiredness, long bouts of low mood, and difficulty with
relationships, which many had struggled with most of their lives.

"Most of our patients have gone through adolescence as very big people, and
the discrimination and stigmatisation and social isolation that occurs
during adolescence is really damaging," Dr Dixon said.

Before they lost weight, patients reported social isolation, tiredness,
long bouts of low mood, and difficulty with relationships.

Younger people and women in the group were particularly susceptible to
depression, he said. Many suffered from poor body image.

It was often hypothesised that depression could cause obesity, with fatty,
"comfort" foods used as a salve for the blues. But because there was such a
dramatic reversal in reports of depressive symptoms even after one year of
losing weight, Dr Dixon said, "we can suggest that that is very unlikely to
be the case".

Instead, it seems that the obesity leads to depression. Conversely, the
depression resolves along with the obesity.

The findings are published in the latest edition of Archives of Internal
Medicine.

Dr Dixon said there were many reasons for this reversal, including the
disappearance of physical conditions caused by obesity, such as type-2
diabetes, sleep apnoea or even being able to maintain personal hygiene.

While this study looked at people at the heaviest end of the obese scale,
Dr Dixon believed that depressive symptoms even in overweight people could
be relieved with weight loss.

The executive officer of the Australasian Society for the Study of Obesity,
Tim Gill, said the study was important. It showed the psycho-social
consequences of obesity were reversible, unlike some physical conditions
that tended to reappear with time after weight loss.

This story was found at:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082995675.html

**********

-- Steve
º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤º
Steve Chaney

Remove "Vegetus." to get my real email address
See the soc.singles HALL OF STUPID:
http://member.newsguy.com/~gunhed/hallofstupid
"If only sheep could cook, we wouldn't need women at all! 8)" - Dizzy,
Message-ID: >
"Outside of this group, I don't remember hearing anyone in RL say that fat
people are worthless." - some anonymous coward admitting the truth,
Message-ID: >
"I watched The Accused last night with Jodie Foster. Tough movie. I was
wondering what people felt as to whether or not they feel she deserved what
happened to her." - Brenda Lee Ehmka, Message-ID:
>
"Jade, your whole existence is spent trying to find people you can justify
vetting your rage toward thorugh all forms of harassment. Do you realize
that?" - Sunny, on Jade's life in a nutshell

[Anita]

If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?

Anita B.

(Steve Chaney, aka Papa Gunnykins ®) wrote in message >...
> Fat figures large in the decline of the inner spirit
> By Amanda Dunn
> Health Reporter
> September 24, 2003
>
> Dispelling the perception that depression causes obesity through the lure
> of high-energy "comfort foods", a Melbourne study has found that obesity
> exacerbates - or even causes - depression.

[David S.]

"Anita" > wrote in message
om...

: If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?

The surgical study of depression. :) (It kinda makes me wonder if a
department of psychiatry has ever studied surgery as a treatment to cure
good mental health.)

But don't listen to me. I admit that I'm quite a cynic when it comes to
scientific and statistical studies. I learned a long time ago that although
figures don't lie, liars can figure. A study can be tailored to give
whatever results the experimenters want.

David

[BJ in Texas]

David S. wrote:
> But don't listen to me. I admit that I'm quite a cynic when
> it comes to scientific and statistical studies.

We should all be :-) BJ

[Diane]

The study did not say that obesity *causes* depression, it said that there
is a correlation between obesity and depression which can be reduced if the
person loses weight. The reported symptoms of depression reported were
social isolation, tiredness, long bouts of low mood, and difficulty with
relationships. With the exception of tiredness, which is only a symptom of
depression when combined wtih other factors, all of these could be a result
of the way our society treats obese people, not the obesity itself. One
might as well say that "people who are ostracized, criticized, and limited
from fully participating in life tend to be depressed".

Depression can be caused by either situational factors (such as loss or
isolation) or physiological factors. This study does not claim that obesity
causes physiological depression, but only that obese people tend to be
despressed. Correlation does not imply causality.

Diane

"Anita" > wrote in message
om...
> If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?
>
> Anita B.
>
> (Steve Chaney, aka Papa Gunnykins ®) wrote
in message >...
> > Fat figures large in the decline of the inner spirit
> > By Amanda Dunn
> > Health Reporter
> > September 24, 2003
> >
> > Dispelling the perception that depression causes obesity through the
lure
> > of high-energy "comfort foods", a Melbourne study has found that obesity
> > exacerbates - or even causes - depression.

[NR]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 24 Sep 2003 07:29:01 -0700, (Anita)
wrote:

>If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?

I know I get depressed whenever my father says he doesn't want to
drill my ass with his dick in the morning.

I ache all day long. Then I want to eat.


NR

http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html

If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
- --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID: >

Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
choice had vandalized churches.
- --Mark Ira Kaufman
Message-ID: >

she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: >

Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex when
she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
that big.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: >

You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
after ****ing a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If the
lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: >

Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
they were called cows.
- --Steve Chaney
Message-ID: >

If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
really not care.
- --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
Message-ID: >

Stephen A Chaney is NR's whipping boy.

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[The Danimal]

(Anita) wrote in message >...
> If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?

Habitual sloth and overeating.

Eating feels good. Taking it easy feels good. People don't
have to be depressed to do things they enjoy. Most people
would rather watch TV for a few hours than take a strenuous
hike for a few hours. Even people who feel generally happy
like to consume entertainment products such as movies.

It only takes a little calorie deficit per day, sustained
over years, to make a person obese. The "cause" you ask about
is subtle. What "causes" a person to eat just the equivalent
of two Powerbars more than they need each day? Most people
would hardly notice that much extra food, but it's enough to
pack on about a pound of fat per week, or 50 pounds in a year.

The real question to ask is what causes a person's appetite
not to scale itself back after that person has started to become
overweight? It's easy to see how a small error in food intake could
cause a person's weight to drift a little. But what shuts down the
proportional controller that should kick in when errors accumulate?

The thermostat in your home is probably a proportional controller.
That means it runs your furnace more when the house temperature
is farther below the setpoint temperature. If the house temperature
continues to drop (because it's really cold outside), the furnace
will run even harder.

Why doesn't that happen in humans? It seems that in humans, the
appetite control mechanism only works on a daily balance basis.
That is, it's mostly a derivative controller, adjusting your appetite
only in response to your very recent calorie balance. The controller
does not "see" the calories that go into long-term storage as bodyfat.

A person who is very fat should have very little appetite. Instead,
the fat person's body urges the fat person to eat enough food today
to fuel today's activities, just the way a slender person's body does.
There is no backup proportional controller that kicks in when
short-term errors accumulate.

-- the Danimal

[Proton Soup]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:29:40 GMT, "Diane"
> wrote:

>The study did not say that obesity *causes* depression, it said that there
>is a correlation between obesity and depression which can be reduced if the
>person loses weight. The reported symptoms of depression reported were
>social isolation, tiredness, long bouts of low mood, and difficulty with
>relationships. With the exception of tiredness, which is only a symptom of
>depression when combined wtih other factors, all of these could be a result
>of the way our society treats obese people, not the obesity itself. One
>might as well say that "people who are ostracized, criticized, and limited
>from fully participating in life tend to be depressed".
>
>Depression can be caused by either situational factors (such as loss or
>isolation) or physiological factors. This study does not claim that obesity
>causes physiological depression, but only that obese people tend to be
>despressed. Correlation does not imply causality.

And obesity is highly correlated with increased food intake.
But maybe, just maybe, these people overeat because they first became
obese, and the obesity then increased their caloric requirements.

Just sayin', is all...

Proton Soup

>Diane
>
>"Anita" > wrote in message
om...
>> If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?
>>
>> Anita B.
>>
>> (Steve Chaney, aka Papa Gunnykins ®) wrote
>in message >...
>> > Fat figures large in the decline of the inner spirit
>> > By Amanda Dunn
>> > Health Reporter
>> > September 24, 2003
>> >
>> > Dispelling the perception that depression causes obesity through the
>lure
>> > of high-energy "comfort foods", a Melbourne study has found that obesity
>> > exacerbates - or even causes - depression.
>

[Steve Chaney, aka Papa Gunnykins ®]

Need a reason to lose weight?
By David Wroe
Canberra
September 25, 2003

A group of Government backbenchers are proposing a novel approach to the
national obesity crisis - tax breaks for fat people who slim down.

The plan to offer financial rewards to people who reduce their body mass
index has the support of some members of the Government's health policy
committee.

Backbencher and committee member Teresa Gambaro has written to Prime
Minister John Howard and Health Minister Kay Patterson outlining the idea.

One possibility would be to lower the 1.5 per cent Medicare levy people pay
on their taxable income. "GPs could monitor this on patients' regular
visits," Ms Gambaro wrote.

Liberal Senator Guy Barnett, who is secretary of the policy committee and
an advocate for compulsory exercise regimes in schools, backed the idea.

"It think it's well worth considering," Senator Barnett said. "There is
value in investigating all options for a healthy Australia, including
financial incentives."

Senator Barnett said the idea was not a "fat tax" because it was based on
rewards, not penalties.

Another member of the committee, Alan Cadman, said it was a good idea and
"worth looking at" but would involve serious tax complications.

Minister Patterson declined to comment yesterday, saying she would wait for
recommendations from the National Obesity Taskforce.

The Australian Institute of Health & Welfare recently found up to 3.3
million Australian adults were obese and another 5.6 million were
overweight.

Ms Gambaro said she would raise the idea in the Government's next party
room meeting. "Tax accountants would prompt people to think about weight
loss every year when they did their tax. The possibilities are endless,"
she said.

Labor's health spokeswoman, Julia Gillard, said: "If this is what stands
for health policy development in the Government... we all have a lot to
worry about."

****
-- Steve
º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤º
Steve Chaney

Remove "Vegetus." to get my real email address
See the soc.singles HALL OF STUPID:
http://member.newsguy.com/~gunhed/hallofstupid
"If only sheep could cook, we wouldn't need women at all! 8)" - Dizzy,
Message-ID: >
"Outside of this group, I don't remember hearing anyone in RL say that fat
people are worthless." - some anonymous coward admitting the truth,
Message-ID: >
"I watched The Accused last night with Jodie Foster. Tough movie. I was
wondering what people felt as to whether or not they feel she deserved what
happened to her." - Brenda Lee Ehmka, Message-ID:
>
"Jade, your whole existence is spent trying to find people you can justify
vetting your rage toward thorugh all forms of harassment. Do you realize
that?" - Sunny, on Jade's life in a nutshell

[Magic Nose Goblin]

(The Danimal) wrote in message >...
> (Anita) wrote in message >...
> > If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?
>
> Habitual sloth and overeating.
>
> Eating feels good. Taking it easy feels good. People don't
> have to be depressed to do things they enjoy. Most people
> would rather watch TV for a few hours than take a strenuous
> hike for a few hours. Even people who feel generally happy
> like to consume entertainment products such as movies.
>
> It only takes a little calorie deficit per day, sustained
> over years, to make a person obese. The "cause" you ask about
> is subtle. What "causes" a person to eat just the equivalent
> of two Powerbars more than they need each day? Most people
> would hardly notice that much extra food, but it's enough to
> pack on about a pound of fat per week, or 50 pounds in a year.
>
> The real question to ask is what causes a person's appetite
> not to scale itself back after that person has started to become
> overweight? It's easy to see how a small error in food intake could
> cause a person's weight to drift a little. But what shuts down the
> proportional controller that should kick in when errors accumulate?
>
> The thermostat in your home is probably a proportional controller.

No... most thermostats are simple on/off controllers.
Most furnaces have either an "on" or "off" functionality.

While the proportion of time which the furnace runs increases
as it gets colder out, that's more of a function of the rate at
which heat leaks out of the house (causing the thermostat to
trip over to the "on" state again).

The typical furnaces produces a constant BTU output.
The typical house loses BTU's in proportion to the difference between
the temperature inside and the temperature outside

> That means it runs your furnace more when the house temperature
> is farther below the setpoint temperature. If the house temperature
> continues to drop (because it's really cold outside), the furnace
> will run even harder.


No...that's how the accelerator control on a car works...but
NOT how the on/off function of a furnace works.

[Jose Yimpho]

Magic Nose Goblin wrote:

> (The Danimal) wrote in message
> >...
>> (Anita) wrote in message
>> >...
>> > If obesity causes depression, then what causes the obesity?
>>
>> Habitual sloth and overeating.
>>
>> Eating feels good. Taking it easy feels good. People don't
>> have to be depressed to do things they enjoy. Most people
>> would rather watch TV for a few hours than take a strenuous
>> hike for a few hours. Even people who feel generally happy
>> like to consume entertainment products such as movies.
>>
>> It only takes a little calorie deficit per day, sustained
>> over years, to make a person obese.

I take it you mean a little calorie surplus.

>> The "cause" you ask about
>> is subtle. What "causes" a person to eat just the equivalent
>> of two Powerbars more than they need each day? Most people
>> would hardly notice that much extra food, but it's enough to
>> pack on about a pound of fat per week, or 50 pounds in a year.

If they were exercising, some of that added weight would be muscle, you
know. Let's not put all the blame on food.

>>
>> The real question to ask is what causes a person's appetite
>> not to scale itself back after that person has started to become
>> overweight? It's easy to see how a small error in food intake could
>> cause a person's weight to drift a little. But what shuts down the
>> proportional controller that should kick in when errors accumulate?
>>
>> The thermostat in your home is probably a proportional controller.
>
> No... most thermostats are simple on/off controllers.
> Most furnaces have either an "on" or "off" functionality.
>
> While the proportion of time which the furnace runs increases
> as it gets colder out, that's more of a function of the rate at
> which heat leaks out of the house (causing the thermostat to
> trip over to the "on" state again).
>
> The typical furnaces produces a constant BTU output.
> The typical house loses BTU's in proportion to the difference between
> the temperature inside and the temperature outside
>
>> That means it runs your furnace more when the house temperature
>> is farther below the setpoint temperature. If the house temperature
>> continues to drop (because it's really cold outside), the furnace
>> will run even harder.
>
>
> No...that's how the accelerator control on a car works...but
> NOT how the on/off function of a furnace works.